I am in desperate need of HELP!!!!!

anthonycastorena2014

anthonycastorena2014

Gold Member
Joined
Nov 27, 2014
Messages
1,716
Hello friends,
I have spent the last 2 days after work working on my Spartan Blades Pallas. I freaking love the knife. It is absolutely crazy under rated imo. It came with a very wide cutting edge. I spent all yesterday back beveling it all the way down to 30 degrees. I walked it through diamond, medium, fine, and ultra fine to a near mirror polish. Then started on the microbevel. I have used the fine stones for hours. It is very sharp but not pop your hair off your arm sharp. I have found that I cannot get the wire edge off. I have stropped, used light strokes, ect and I just can’t seem to make it Shave reliably . Please somebody please pass some wisdom. I am going insane.
 
Every so often, i come across a knife where I just can't get it as sharp as I want. I'll take it back to 30DPS, and for whatever reason, it just doesn't cooperate with me... i dont really get it, but so it goes. I figure i'm just not great at sharpening.
 
Try reading all relevant posts in the Maintenance subform... I will bet that some of those posts may be helpful, and you could post there as well. I wish I could help, but I just go for a working edge on my knife blades, so I don't have the answer to precision sharpness.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Maybe try making a cut into pine or stiff cardboard? I find sometimes that will help knock off a wire edge or burr that I can't seem to get any other way.
Click to expand...

Lol man I am so close to trying this. Just seems like a shame very carefully sharpening it, stropping it, then cutting wood. Very interesting idea and so help me god if I can't figure out anything else I'm going to. Thanks man!
 
Hello friends,
I have spent the last 2 days after work working on my Spartan Blades Pallas. I freaking love the knife. It is absolutely crazy under rated imo. It came with a very wide cutting edge. I spent all yesterday back beveling it all the way down to 30 degrees. I walked it through diamond, medium, fine, and ultra fine to a near mirror polish. Then started on the microbevel. I have used the fine stones for hours. It is very sharp but not pop your hair off your arm sharp. I have found that I cannot get the wire edge off. I have stropped, used light strokes, ect and I just can’t seem to make it Shave reliably . Please somebody please pass some wisdom. I am going insane.
 
Until I bought a felt deburring block I would just run the blade along the end of a piece of pine from heel to tip. then strop. No more burr and screaming sharp! It works and the wood is soft enough that it won't ruin the polish you put on it.
Either way your gonna cut stuff with it. right?
 
NorthernSouthpaw said:
Until I bought a felt deburring block I would just run the blade along the end of a piece of pine from heel to tip. then strop. No more burr and screaming sharp! It works and the wood is soft enough that it won't ruin the polish you put on it.
Either way your gonna cut stuff with it. right?
Click to expand...

Yes, I cut stuff with about every knife I own. To be honest I was trying my best to achieve a mirror polish. I was pretty proud that I back beveled it all the way down to the tip with a ton of work, then started the micro bevel. It's just driving me crazy I cant get it super sharp. I am going to try this. Thank you sir.
 
anthonycastorena2014 said:
Yes, I cut stuff with about every knife I own. To be honest I was trying my best to achieve a mirror polish. I was pretty proud that I back beveled it all the way down to the tip with a ton of work, then started the micro bevel. It's just driving me crazy I cant get it super sharp. I am going to try this. Thank you sir.
Click to expand...

Holy crap. I just flipped over my knivesplus strop, ran it through the wood being that you are the second person to tell me to do so. It really worked. It's still not crazy sharp but it took most of the burr off. Thanks sir!
 
anthonycastorena2014 said:
Just seems like a shame very carefully sharpening it, stropping it, then cutting wood.
Click to expand...
I have not found this necessary in my sharpening, but have read it many times, so it must work. I would advise just flipping your work often to get the burr to move back and forth at the apex, which will weaken it until it will finally fall off, or as mentioned, be weakened enough that just cutting something like cardboard will pull it off.
 
You may or may not have a burr problem. If you do have a burr that won't go away, one useful technique is the double angle technique. Do one stroke on each side at double the original sharpening angle. Do these strokes lightly. Then drop back to the original angle and do 2 to 4 strokes per side, alternating sides, at the original angle.

That should remove any residual burr; it's a good technique.

I suspect you haven't actually fully apexed the edge, but I can't be sure.

Brian.
 
bgentry said:
You may or may not have a burr problem. If you do have a burr that won't go away, one useful technique is the double angle technique. Do one stroke on each side at double the original sharpening angle. Do these strokes lightly. Then drop back to the original angle and do 2 to 4 strokes per side, alternating sides, at the original angle.

That should remove any residual burr; it's a good technique.

I suspect you haven't actually fully apexed the edge, but I can't be sure.

Brian.
Click to expand...

I am 99.9% sure I have apexed it. I have been very slow and careful. I have sharpened now for countless hours trying to get this knife to its potential.

gunfixrjoe said:
Personally, to me, and just my opinion, 30dps is rather steep
Click to expand...

The knife came with a very wide bevel. I back beveled it to 30dps I am now working on my micro bevel at 40dps.
 
anthonycastorena2014 said:
I am 99.9% sure I have apexed it. I have been very slow and careful.
Click to expand...

Did you form a burr, full length, on the entire edge, on both sides? Were you very sure that you detected the burr when you did this? I ask because the burr is the most positive indication that you have brought one side down to the actual edge of the blade. Many people stop as soon as they detect any burr at all, which normally means that only part of the edge has actually been apexed and the rest still needs work.

You may have indeed done these things; just asking to be sure.

Brian.
 
bgentry said:
Did you form a burr, full length, on the entire edge, on both sides? Were you very sure that you detected the burr when you did this? I ask because the burr is the most positive indication that you have brought one side down to the actual edge of the blade. Many people stop as soon as they detect any burr at all, which normally means that only part of the edge has actually been apexed and the rest still needs work.

You may have indeed done these things; just asking to be sure.

Brian.
Click to expand...

Thank you Brian. I am going to have round 4 today. I have been pretty thorough in making sure I can scratch the burr with my thumb nail down the entire length of the blade, then repeating on the other side. I bought the felt deburring block talked about in the above. I am finally giving sharpening a real shot. Thanks for your suggestion. I think I am going to raise a bird on each side again today and try to polish off the wire edge. The Pallas’s thumb studs are not removebale and it’s causing me some grief while stropping. It seems like I can get the wire edge off one spot, but dull another.
 
OK . . .
give me some room boys . . .
we have an emergency here. . .
stand back . . . give him some air . . .

What I have found (call them facts if you like I think they are) :
  • Some steel sucks to sharpen . . . usually low end stainless . . . not saying I / you can't get it shaving.
  • Some steel likes some TYPES of stones (or hates some types of stones)
  • My M4 loves spyderco ultra fine ceramic rod for final edge
  • Many of my stainless blades just form a bur with the same ceramic rod and won't give it up
  • When I want to stop fooooooooling around and make something sharp I put it in a jig, use the right stones and start with a fairly coarse stone and go through at least three or four (or five or six) grit progressions. Once I get to the end of the progression, USING THE JIG, . . . I KNOW that I will have a hair whittling edge (***** shave sharp HA ! ***** way past shave sharp !) with no effort. About as difficult as playing scales on an instrument.

Edge angle makes all the difference in cutting effort 30° inclusive is great (not per side) (no micro).
HOWEVER with no extra steps, for my woodworking tools using the jig in the photo next to the white stone shown below, it is easy to produce a hair whittling edge on ~54° inclusive. No prob.

For knives I use the Edge Pro Apex
IMG_3334.jpg

For woodworking tools this jig and a selection of bench stones that work best with the steel being sharpened.
IMG_1056.JPG

Yes, yes it can be done by hand but takes way more concentration and :
  • Tallent
  • Skill
  • Luck
  • Proper star alignment
  • Putting your hat on just right with the bill curvature finely tuned according to the above
How you hold your tongue is a huge factor . . . a little too far out, a little too far to the left . . . all is lost . . . you may as well rub the knife on the side walk.

IMG_3304.jpg

Do you like a challenge ? Have lots of time ? Sharpen by hand.
Want to produce a precision cutting edge on a tool ? MACHINE it on there with another precision tool designed for the purpose.

We have a pulse . . . brain wave activity is coming back up . . .
Now it is all up to FedEx whether he whittles or not.

PS: oh and what steel is this knife you have ?
 
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anthonycastorena2014 said:
Thank you Brian. I am going to have round 4 today. I have been pretty thorough in making sure I can scratch the burr with my thumb nail down the entire length of the blade, then repeating on the other side. I bought the felt deburring block talked about in the above. I am finally giving sharpening a real shot. Thanks for your suggestion. I think I am going to raise a bird on each side again today and try to polish off the wire edge. The Pallas’s thumb studs are not removebale and it’s causing me some grief while stropping. It seems like I can get the wire edge off one spot, but dull another.
Click to expand...

If a burr is the problem then doing a few high angled strokes is the best way to break it off. If you are sharpening at 15 degrees per side do a couple very light no pressure strokes at 25-30 degrees on each side of the edge. This will break your burr off. Now do a few very light stokes at 15 degrees per side again.
 
Wowbagger said:
PS: oh and what steel is this knife you have ?
Click to expand...
I saw one on line with S35VN. I have almost none of that. I would use the Shapton Glass stones. If that didn't work great, the next time I would just go with my DMT aligner stones, in a jig, and finish with the 8,000 DMT of those stones. They work great with all the high vanadium versions up to and including S110V.
 
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