I am never shipping OCONUS again.

9Nine

9Nine

Feedback: +13 / =0 / -0
Joined
Sep 27, 2014
Messages
322
I am making this post to serve as a warning to others about shipping to OCONUS addresses. I have always been on the fence about doing this because of where I live, but I finally broke my rule, and it was neither a fun experience nor a smart decision.

For context: I live in Germany, but on a military base. Because of this, people can ship packages to me via USPS at normal domestic rates. I try to be up front about my location during transactions, and I feel very fortunate that I have never had a seller on these forums refuse to ship to me. But after this experience, I can't hold it against anyone if I am denied in the future.

I listed a knife for sale a few weeks ago, and was contacted by someone else in Germany (not at an APO address) who wanted to buy the knife. Because I wanted the knife gone, and because this individual and I were in the same country, I broke my "rule" about only shipping to CONUS and/or APO boxes, and decided to send the package to a domestic German address (and at a discount).

This has been the biggest pain in the ass I've ever experienced using the postal system for a couple of reasons, and I am never doing it again. I would like to pass along what I learned so that others know what to expect, because your experience may very well be about the same if you are using USPS and shipping from a CONUS address.

I chose to ship via USPS because I do not have an actual German address, and that makes for complications when using DHL. I was assured by the USPS office here that this would cause a minor shipping delay of a day or two, and I would not be able to track the parcel once it hit the German postal system. Other than that, it would be just like shipping anything else. This was incorrect. The knife ended up taking a week to travel about 175 miles, and when it arrived at the destination, the person I sold it to was going to be required to pay nearly 1/3 of the selling price in customs fees. None of this information was relayed to me by the people at USPS when I initially shipped the knife, so naturally it caught both myself and the buyer completely off guard. He did not want to pay this additional fee, which I understood. He refused to accept the package and it was sent back to me. It has now been an additional 11 days, and the knife still has not reached me. DHL tracking stopped at a city several hours away about a week ago, and USPS doesn't have any way to track it. The buyer is understandably frustrated, as am I. I have agreed to refund him his money via PayPal when I get paid (this Sunday), and after some back and forth between us, he was gracious enough to be understanding of the situation and accept my offer of a somewhat delayed refund.

All in all, we are both out some money for shipping and PayPal fees, he doesn't get the Sebenza that he waited so patiently for, I have no idea where the Sebenza is and when it will arrive (and neither do DHL and USPS), and we have both been frustrated by this ordeal and had our time wasted. I can only hope that I end up receiving the knife back so that I don't get completely screwed out of my PayPal money.

I can see now why so many sellers are reluctant or flat out refuse to ship OCONUS. Unfortunately, after this experience, I will be joining that list. To anyone considering it, consider mine and others' experiences and make your decision carefully. A rocky road awaits you. I hope this post helps someone.
 
A most unfortunate state of affairs but I am interested to know why did you not simply walk over to a local German PO and ship it through the regular Deutsche Post system?
 
Steven65 said:
A most unfortunate state of affairs but I am interested to know why did you not simply walk over to a local German PO and ship it through the regular Deutsche Post system?
Click to expand...

Because I was told by an employee at the post office (incorrectly, I now know), that this would create a headache for me because I don't have a domestic German address.
 
9Nine said:
Because I was told by an employee at the post office (incorrectly, I now know), that this would create a headache for me because I don't have a domestic German address.
Click to expand...

For future reference (based on most of my 23 year military career spent living in Germany ... though I have been retired nearly that long) ... all military installations have a German postal address, which could have been used as a return address. Should have been very simple (which you probably already now know) to send out via DP.
 
Sounds like the only issue is the buyer wasn't willing to pay custom's fees. If you'd shipped from the states that situation would have been the same. Those fees are the buyer's problem, not the seller's. You shipped from a US address (APO) to a German address, so, yeah.
 
I presume if you had shipped through the German postal system there would not be any custom fees. The buyer should have known that if you used the USPS system he was going to get hit with the fees. That is at least how I see it. By using USPS you transferred it back to US and had to go through customs for something that was already in the country.
 
In country or overseas, high-dollar or low-value, mailing has rules and they are accessible. Knowledge is ... money.

By the way, allow me to mention, again, that CONUS / OCONUS are incorrect terms for mailings involving the US. We have Alaska, Hawaii, and several territories that are as legitimate destinations as Los Angeles, California.
 
Not a great experience and most certainly one that would put off selling abroad, as you are on a US base it is like shipping from the US and customs/duty should be factored in, learned this lesson long ago when serving abroad . I live in the UK, sadly for me most of the makers I like are in the US which is usually the only place to buy them, BF is a lifeline to a market that would not exist otherwise. I know it can be a pain, but if your buyer is aware of the shipping cost/time and has factored in any issues regarding customs/duty and is fully aware of any risk involved I really can't see the harm. I have had a number of deals with US based sellers, some business's, some private, some here and the majority have gone super smooth, USPS average about 10 days, FedEx holds the record at 3, there has been the odd hitch, which was quickly sorted, but probably no more so than a domestic state to state sale. I can understand the reluctance of people not wanting to ship outside CONUS, at the end of the day its their property to sell to where or whom they choose but please give a thought to your less fortunate fellow knife enthusiasts who are geographically impeded.
 
I can understand your frustration and your dealings with the buyer are admirable To me this looks like either German Customs miscalculated the item's value or the buyer failed to do their homework. In any case I don't think the responsibility should have fallen on you to accept the returned item or issue a refund.

I have bought a lot from BF members and I make a specific point of taking responsibility for any Customs (etc) issues. I expect the seller to be honest, describe tge item to me properly (so I can assess whether it is legal to import) and to get my address right. I take responsibility for knowing my own laws. It sounds to me that you have gone above and beyond.

I hope you and the buyer find an arrangement that works to both your satisfaction.
 
You mailed the knife, he received it yet refused to accept the package and had it sent back. I would not be refunding the money until you have the knife back...
 
Jsega51 said:
You mailed the knife, he received it yet refused to accept the package and had it sent back. I would not be refunding the money until you have the knife back...
Click to expand...

Yup!
I understand how the OP feels responsible, but l would t refund till the knife is in my hands.
Joe
 
Shouldn't the subject of this topic changed? Maybe "US APO to a non-US address" or something similar?

OP, hope you get your knife back. Shipping to other countries is not very difficult or expensive, and very reliable services do exist (Registered offered by USPS for example).
 
Go to the Deutsche Post in Schoenaich and they will take care of you, they're young and speak english just fine. You don't need a German mailing address which you do actually have to mail stuff with the German system. Don't limit your customers if you need something shipped to a German I'll do it I'll even come pick it up provided your not some place like RB
 
GermanyChris said:
Go to the Deutsche Post in Schoenaich and they will take care of you, they're young and speak english just fine. You don't need a German mailing address which you do actually have to mail stuff with the German system. Don't limit your customers if you need something shipped to a German I'll do it I'll even come pick it up provided your not some place like RB
Click to expand...

I appreciate it. I'm at Patch, thankfully I don't have to deal with the RB drive. Now that I know what I know about using Deutsche Post I probably wouldn't have an issue shipping to Germany again. When I made this post I was still pissed about how the whole thing went down and being threatened with a PayPal dispute because I hadn't refunded the buyer yet (before the knife was even in my possession). I appreciate the offer.
 
Paypal will not side with the buyer until the package is returned. So, that is a hollow threat. I would not refund any money until I have the knife back in your hands...........that should be a universal practice.
 
Gastonknife said:
Paypal will not side with the buyer until the package is returned. So, that is a hollow threat. I would not refund any money until I have the knife back in your hands...........that should be a universal practice.
Click to expand...

I know, but I was still pissed that he threatened a dispute. I agree with you 100%. He sent me a final, nasty email when I wouldn't respond to his emails asking me to reship the knife using Deutsche Post after he had threatened the PayPal dispute. Nice guy.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top