I am not CRITICIZING, merely ASKING...!

I don't understand this fascination people have with "tactical" knives. Surely, the typical gun/knife show denizen I have met who pulls a knife in a "fight" is going to either

1. be shot
2. be stabbed with his own knife
3. experience either #1 or #2 above
AND have his $500 custom knife (along with his ballcap and chewin' tobaccy) stolen from him!

(Please understand, my observation is NOT meant to denigrate the high quality of craftsmanship I have seen in these knives. I have seen some excellent knives in this category.)

I just want to know why people buy these. I cannot believe the user intends to carry them for self-defense. Moreover, if they truly are interested in "self-defense blades," why aren't we selling them broadswords?



[This message has been edited by samwereb (edited 28 December 1999).]
 
Ball Caps and Chewing Tabacco.... not criticizing but stereotyping a bit maybe.

The key word is defense. I know some will say it is better for the novice to leave the knife at home and I agree... only when we are talking offense.
In my mind the tactical market is really an offense market and with that in mind I think these knives are natural defense tools. Thus they are attractive to us ball cap wearin', tabbacy chewin', Old Corps hilly billies.

Your broad sword statement is pitiful. Why not carry a shotgun in public instead of a compact 45. On your best defensive day carrying a large weapon would be considered an offensive move. You would probably be arrested with in a week.

The answer to why carry a knife is answered only by the event that dictates it's use ... and you don't have one with you.

------------------
>)-RadarMan-(<
age:38
When you argue with a fool, that makes two -- Vermont Proverb
Click to expand...




[This message has been edited by RadarMan (edited 28 December 1999).]
 
Matt Shade

Matt Shade

Joined
Nov 24, 1999
Messages
4,981
I know that some knives are considered more tactical than others. Like the spyderco civilian and the BM AFCK. While the AFCK is still a tactical knife, it also serves as a very user friendly utility knife for people. Alot of people look for similar things in a utility knife that they would in a combat knife. Ease of carry, solid lockup, sharp perfomance blade, etc. Even knives with hawkbills are good for utility. I think they cut rope more aggresively on a pull cut than anything else I've ever used.On top of all that I think most of us knife nuts like the look of a tactical knife. You don't see very many peopl asking for a custom blade that is as plain and boring as possible.There are art knives and high end gentlemens knives that might look nice too, but in a different way. I seriously doubt that everysingle person with a one handed, somewhat tactical or verytactical knife is planing on using it for self defense. And if they do, and it works and saves their ass. I don't see a problem. There is a risk to pulling a knife in a fight.But if I thought it My life was in danger and my knife would change the odds to my favor, it'd be out in no time.Even I only bought it with utility in mind.

------------------
Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
 
I wasn't going to say anything about the ballcap and tobbaco statement, but since its been brought up.The only time I'm not wearing a ballcap is when I'm wearing my cowboy hat. And while I don't chew tobbaco, I have friends who do, and some of my favorite songs are about it. Everheard anything by Chris Ledoux ? Yes I'm a redneck so maybe this doesn't count. But I don't see where ballcaps and chewing tobbaco have anything to do with who carries tactical knives and how they are going to use them.

------------------
Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
 
Guys:0

Well, I was avoiding the concealment issue, which is, unfortunately, illegal in most states. It is just that I wanted to know if people bought them mainly to carry or to collect/display.

Surely, you would agree that no folding knife could ever be serioiusly considered a fighting weapon. I was referring to fixed blade knives of the "neck knife" type, and so on.

Regarding the ideal carrying weapon, I would personally prefer the TEN TON BOULDER but it too has its drawbacks. (It is hard to conceal, it is usually only single-shot, and it is very stigmatized by the media, etc.)

I am no badass street fightin' man, but I nearly always carry a pocketknife. I have naturally had far more occasions to clean up my fingernails than any other use for it. I can tell you without any hesitation that I would sooner run from a confrontation, than pull out a knife!

Radarman, sir, I just threw in the hillbilly reference for comic relief; I certainly wasn't referring to makers. What do your customers say they are going to do with their knives?
 
Radarman:

I don't want you to violate your Yankee proverb because I may well be a fool. But if you would indulge me for a minute I would appreciate it.

You are a Marine. You were taught to fight. You wouldn't fear a guy with a knife, even if you were unarmed. Who would?

They surely taught you how to camp, in the Marine Corps. Have you seen some of these "Greco" tactical knives? I think they make FANTASTIC camp knives! But, for fighting?

(Before I am banished from this forum, I want to state that I think the Greco knives illustrate truly EXCELLENT CRAFTSMANSHIP AND DESIGN, which is why I refer to them, here. They are, among several makes, far too good to leave on the shelf. You would just HAVE to use one!)
 
My observation is that the knife you carry tends to make a statement about who you are. Sort of like the car you drive. There are many different statements that can be made and many different reasons for it.
 
If your talking about neck knives, then I would say my answer is about the same as before. While they would be considered a little more tactical than any folding knife. They are really the best way to carry a fixed blade for utility without getting stares. Ideally I'd have a 9 inch bladed bowie on my belt at all times along with a smaller knife for more detailed work. That way I could still get the big jobs done without going and looking for what I need and I'd still have my other knife for small jobs. Since thats illegal, and I don't want my nickname to be crocodile dun dee I have to go without the fixed blade.
frown.gif

And for self defense, my favorite would be the sawed off 10 gauge loaded with buckshot.Sure it weighs 30 lbs and is hard to conceal. But who's going to mug the guy carrying a shot gun. A close second would be the ten ton boulder with a matching sling shot
smile.gif


------------------
Fix it right the first time, use Baling Wire !
 
samwereb,

I think you miss Radarman’s well-said point: DEFENSE. By your rationale, it’s gun or run. Potential victims don’t always have these options. The fact is: would be attackers generally pray on the weak, elderly, or female and they try to attack when the victim is most vulnerable and cornered.

It has been my experience that the outcome of any confrontation is determined by a combination of three things:

1. Ability: personal preparedness; strength, skill, speed, training ect
2. Capability: equipment; knife, gun, ten-ton bolder
3. Determination: is just that, one’s resolve or will to prevail

I’ve witnessed well trained and equipped troops in a simulated combat environment, fail miserably...they lacked determination. I’ve also read a report in which a mother drove off a burglar with nothing but her tiny fists (she had no weapons, no self-defense training, and no choice).

I’ve had to leave my wife and children in some less-than-perfect situations, I always hand her my AFCK. She’s had no formal training and she’s not a large or powerful person. But defense wouldn’t begin to describe what would happen to some poor SOB that tried to get her kids.

A criminal wants something from a victim and is willing to risk jail-time to get it. When a potential victim displays the ability, capability, and determination to defend themselves, that criminal risks more than jail-time and has to reconsider what he really wants.

TJ
 
May I suggest you move this question to the training/tactics forum? You will likely get more appropriate responses. This topic really does not involve the craft of making the knife itself.

Regards,
Glenn
 
if you guys are worried, take a self defense karate class, then you won't have to worry.

[This message has been edited by magnum .44 (edited 28 December 1999).]
 
I would consider a Sifu quite a seriouse fighting knife.

I can tell you without any hesitation that I would sooner run from a confrontation, than pull out a knife!

Sometimes the only time you could get a chance to run is if you pull a knife and cut the attacker. If an attacker jumps you lays you on your butt sits on your chest and pummels you then a stab to the attackers leg would give you a chance to run.

------------------
Jake P
Anchorage,Alaska

 
Several points:

* Running ain't my strong suite. I don't mean "won't", I mean "can't"...bad knees, ankles, leg swelling, etc.

* I've been threatened with weapons on the street twice now, in both cases with *clubs* (claw hammers (multiple assailants), large wrench). In both cases, seeing a large folder in my hands caused them to back down - and VERY quickly. Was I absolutely determined to use that blade if necessary? HELL yes - and reading that was probably a factor in them backing off.

A lot of street crime is caused by addicts, crazies and homeless, many of whom can't afford even a cheap stolen gun. Here in California with gun laws disarming the sheeple, weapons like screwdrivers, wood chisels, hammers, canes, golf clubs, baseball bats and the like are a serious and common threat.

* You bet I carry defensive cutlery. DAILY. My "always with me" knife is now the Sifu, and on weekends I'll back a larger custom fixed blade, sometimes a $350 Mad Dog ATAK but more often a $440 handmade-to-my-own-specs 9" blade "pure fighter" known as "The Outsider".

Yes, a gun would be better. Hence my ongoing lawsuit against my Sheriff over CCW permit issuance (corruption, illegal activities, bias, nepotism, racism). But until I can get somewhere with that, I can't break the gun laws because one gun carry bust would make my suit go away and the Sheriff knows it.

So I carry the biggest dang blades I can legally pack, and here in California that's a LOT of blade. Our knife carry laws are actually quite liberal, better than most of the states that have decent shall-issue CCW permit systems in place.

Jim March
Equal Rights for CCW Home Page (getting a total revamp TOMORROW) http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw
 
A 3" to 4" quality production blade is an effective and instinctive (slash-thrust) defense when you cannot run and you don't want to have to bite, chew and gouge eyeballs yet. Plus it has the added bonus of being one of the most useful tools ever invented by man. $500+ for the same purposes are what makes life interesting.
 
This goes back to the definition of the term "tactical knife". We've had a few threads on this, and it may behoove you, if you really want to know, to search for them. A "tactical knife" is not limited to fighting. If that were the case, you wouldn't see the post on the Delica that is currently up (title is something along hte lines of "quite possibly the greatest knife ever"). This post will give you a better idea of what some demand from their "tactical knives". They have to cut rope, tape, cardboard, wood, seatbelts, paper, fingernails, cords,, and for some, flesh, amongst countless other things. Personally, I hate the idea of using a knife for defense. For this reason, I have never drawn a knife in a defense situation. Luckily, I am still in one piece and my only cars are from my lil' sister scratching me when I was young.

Howie
 
I think we need to define "Redneck"
smile.gif


Your premise is that a tactical knife is used for self defense. Its not. despite the hype designed to attract young buyers a tactical knife for most of us is just a form of practical knife. Basics include: a strong no-frills construction, reliable performance, and few if any embelishments. It merely represents the most knife we can hope to acquire at a given price point. The martial aspect is pure positioning. If the treat were real (to us) we would either get a gun or move out of Dodge.

I for one hope never to have to use a knife in self defense. Although, I will continue to carry a "tactical" knife as a practical tool. But, if the need comes up, you may rest assured that I will use everything within my reach - including my knife.
 
There are perhaps quite a few of us who have not experienced real world crisis where ones life was in imminent danger. Hopefully they will not learn thru having becoming a victim. I think that is the basis for which these questions are being asked. Similarly, I' ve been asked thruout the years: "What do you need a gun for?" and "Why do you have so many?"
smile.gif


I think there is plenty of info here on these forums that will help in "demystifying" the tactical mindset.

L8r,
Nakano

[This message has been edited by Nakano 2 (edited 30 December 1999).]
 
My thinking is thus, I carry a knife for general use, but I choose models that will also allow me to use them for self-defense. Yes, if I pull a knife in a gun fight, odds are I am going to lose. However, if I pull my knife in a fight(SpyderCo BlackHawk and BM 870) and get in a marginal hit, I am going to do some serious damage. People are afraid of guns, but people are very afraid of wicked sharp looking blades. So the Motto is, while you may not need the super tactical knife, as long as you are comfortable carrying it, it's better to have and not use, then need it and not have it.

------------------
Mutt

Indeed, if thou hurteth in thy efforts and thou
suffer painful dings, then thou art Doing It Right
RW
 
Like Jim March, I cannot run due to various infirmities, but I do NOT consider what I carry to be a weapon. Among other things, my religious preference precludes this. But I do carry a folding knife as a tool, and am constantly using it as such and, on one occasion, it was pressed into service for defense and it worked. I had entered an elevator down to the DC Metro when two punks got on. One stood by the controls with his hand near the "Stop" button and the other started toward me. I happened to be carrying a Spydie Police that day and I started to draw it. The eyes on the punks got big, the one backed away from me, the other let his hand drop from the control. When the elevator reached the Mezzanine, the two exited and RAN over and up the escalator to the street. I'll never know for certain what was on their minds, but I have a very good idea.

Two things need saying here. First is that the punks had hopped on the elevator after me and blocked me from leaving it, so I had no escape. The second is that I had EVERY intention of following through on the presentation of the knife. The situation was two young, fit men against one old, infirm man in a city known for violence, so the odds were that I was up against some violent predators and I treat predators on two or four legs the same if they are a threat.

------------------
Walk in the Light,
Hugh Fuller

[This message has been edited by FullerH (edited 30 December 1999).]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top