I am thinking about getting a canoe?

[Codger_64]

Michael,

Thanks for the information. That gives me a lot to narrow my search. The video(s) were really helpful. It seems 15' to 17', shallow arch for solo, 800# capacity for tandem camping. Material is not important but I'd prefer a little more rigidity to the hull than my friend has in his 15' Tripper. I don't know why but that oil canning irritates me. I'd also live with it has only happened when we were trying to get out of the weather and the water was getting rougher. I hope I am on the right track?

I believe so. Oil canning, on the more modern canoes, I have only seen on the single layer polyethelyne jobs. This is the reason the old Colemans had an aluminum keelson running down the inside and vertical supports/braces to it from the seats and thwarts. Nowdays, the sucessor by Pelican has hollow molded seats that make up the vertical support to the hull bottom. These get rebranded for big box stores, but almost always have a center seat "ice chest", molded in cup holders, blah blah blah.

There is a second, less obvious reason for the hollow seats. Floatation. The hull material is not bouyant and few if any have floatation chambers built into the ends. The old Coleman solution was a molded styrofoam block in the bow and stern captured by the deckplates and bulkheads. Many aluminum canoes used this method as well. Most composite canoes use molded in air tanks. They add bouyancy without adding weight. Few Royalex canoes have factory added bouyancy. Why? One of the layers of Royalex is ABS foam, so the hull itself has some bouyancy. Old Town's Discovery series is Polylink3, three layers of cross directional bonded polyethelene. It is much more rigid than linier polyethelyne, but still not very bouyant.

I would likely be "butt-boating" right along with the crowd but for my age and physical condition. An open canoe allows me to change positions as often as I like and doesn't require contortions of my spine and legs. I still kneel on rare occasions for additional stability when needed, but don't stay in that position any longer than I have to. And I like to be able to carry a dog, people or other cargo.

Thus far, I have four canoes as follows (as opposed to having one canoe for every purpose):

1- Old Town Guide 169 - Crosslink Poly tandem recreational hull, relatively flat bottomed, wide with a keel for tracking, long for carrying a lot of weight when needed. Takes some skill to maneuver on tight moving water, but very forgiving with great primary and secondary stability, no rocker. Weight above 80#

2 - Blue Hole Sunburst 14'6" - Royalex solo whitewater hull, arch bottomed, 3 1/2" rocker (bottom of bow and stern upturned), narrow and no keel for maneuvering in swift water. Weight about 60# with air bags added for additional bouyancy.

3- Bell Canoe Works Morningstar 15' 6" - Fiberglass cloth composite solo/tandem crossover (three seats intended for one or two paddlers), shallow arch hull, slight rocker, narrow with tumblehome (sides curve inward at the top to the gunnels). Weight around 45# with built in air chambers in the ends. A flatwater canoe capable of easy moving water with care in avoiding rocks and snags.

4 - Old Town Discovery 119 (11'9") - polylink3 hull solo "pack" style canoe, great for fishing and messing around on flat or slow moving water, low weight capacity, rather tender until you get used to it. This is not one you want to stand in to cast a lure, but you can get far up into the lily pads if you don't load it down with gear. Weight 43#.

Both the Royalex and poly are super slick over rocks and logs, but will scratch and abrade. The fiberglass (hand laid layers of sheets, not a heavy old chopper gun boat shot in a mold) has a very thin exterior coat of gelcoat which is easily scuffed. But it makes up for this drawback in a fine design that is a joy to paddle.

 

[Bo T]

So far I haven't found anyone willing to make a trade for their canoe I went low end and middle of the road (a couple of times). Did I make a mistake in eliminating Coleman canoes? I am also avoiding blown fiberglass canoes (I think Coleman made some blown fiberglass canoes). I might look at a fiberglass Mohawk but I was told that it is heavy (perhaps an old rental canoe?). Anyway, lots of canoes that seem to be @ 90% of perfect. I may have to go on a diet and start saving my change.

 

[Codger_64]

All of my canoes are "low end" money wise. As far as what I paid for them. None of them cost $500, even with improvements like seat and thwart replacement.

I see a lot of Colemans for sale where the seller doesn't know what it is made from and calls it fiberglass. Coleman used almost exclusively linier polyethelyne beginning in the mid 1970's through their move to Texas from Wichita and beyond. The aluminum keelson inside the canoe and vertical supports from the seats and thwarts to the keelson are the giveaway. Without them, the floor is floppy. But a Coleman made it's mark on the industry by selling low priced boats that were heavy but quite stable and pretty darn durable. I believe they were made in 15, 16 and 17 foot lengths. I had the 17' model. It paddled like a tank but I beat that thing over rocks, gravel and stumps for years and never damaged it an appreciable amount. Drawbacks I found, besides the weight, were lack of fine maneuverability due to the keel which made it track straight, gave the hull more rigidity and provided a groove inside to fit the keelson. Mine after ten years developed a small cold crack just under the aluminum gunnel which did not affect usefulness. The "Colorado Red" poly hull faded over time because of a lack of UV inhibitors in the plastic, but it lived outside always. You should be able to buy one with little or no damage for $300 or less.

The blown chopper gun canoes are thick and heavy. I wouldn't give over $200-250 for one myself with the understanding that they are not very abrasion resistant, but can be home-patched as needed with a kit from an auto parts store. The modern composite versions of these boats are a whole different breed with refined lines and the hand laid glass sheets are stratigly placed for durability, stiffness and lighter weight while all unneeded resin id rolled out of the cloth. Mewolf1 explained to me the ideal "saturation rates" of the different cloths, as developed by Ted Bell and others, how it affected strength/weight ratio.

Heck, get a canoe and go paddling! Even if it is a heavy beater with not a lot of life left, buy it cheap and beat it like a rented mule! And keep saving for something better. My only cavaet is that I personally consider a lot of the more modern big box store canoes to be garbage. But if it was cheap enough and I couldn't afford better... and when I could afford better I could sell it on or keep it as a loaner. I still think you would be better off with an Old Town Discovery model if you can find one. While the Disco's aren't svelt designs or exactly lightweight, they are a major step up from the Rogue River etc.

Pardon me, but I am loading gear right now to head to the river for an overnghter, a 20 mile run. I'm taking the refurbished antique Sunburst this time to test the new seat location and see if Jake can adapt to the narrower hull. He will be just in front of me in this solo canoe, so if he get's too frisky, he will be within swatting distance! Everything is in waterproof bags just in case.

Michael

 

[leghog]

I will use the canoe mostly for small lakes and meandering streams. The odds are very low that I will end up beyond class 1 in a river.

All hull designs are a compromise. Using your criteria, I'd look for a boat with little rocker but one that heels easily and with a low beam to keel ratio.

Research, research, research. Then decide. 20 years ago my criteria was very similar to yours, excepting I wanted a solo boat. I bought an Old Town Penobscot 15 (red in pic below) and haven't looked back. No regrets.

The canoe in back (green) is a slow, fat, keeled, fiberglass boat I bought used/cheaply so my wife and I could float on in local ponds and small lakes to fish --- very little paddling as it's a brick. No regrets there either as long as I remember the purpose/reason I bought it.

From a 1994 catalog