I apparently REALLY screwed UP

JEFFREY

JEFFREY

Joined
May 27, 2001
Messages
333
Thanks Paul.Kinda needed to hear that. I deleted the
original post by writing this.I should of simply kept my mouth shut but I was really uncomfortable
with being instrumental in having their dealership revoked. I am however at
the moment not a very happy camper.I have all the respect in the world for Mr Reeve and staff.
I guess it's just business,and sincerely hope this thread ENDS HERE AND NOW!
 
I wouldn't feel too bad about this. First, it may not have been your doing at all. And second, if the company had begun to enjoy some success, CR Knives would have found out about it soon enough anyway. Third, if they were discounting the knives, they had to know they were violating his policy and putting their dealership in jeopardy.
 
I have opened my big mouth a time or two as well. It's done now. All you can do is move on. Don't be too hard on yourself. My <i>mantra</i> on this type of issue is <B><I>Loose lips sink ships</i></b>.

Take care,
John
 
OK what did I miss ???????? I'm here almost every day so this must have slipped by. :confused: :eek: ;)

Answers................. please.... :)
 
Apparently JEFFREY's post in this thread http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=175958
caused Department Services to lose their distributorship. The website lists CRK as part of their catalog however, no prices or listings can be found under the 'knives' section. This is an object lesson for me because I know someone (a dealer) who regularly sells Large sebenzas for $300. I will know now that if I want to continue to procure them at this price then I will be very discreet about his prices.
 
I recall not all that long ago that there was a big stink about Benchmade trying to control prices and it was likened to a court case involving shoe manufacturer "9 West". Now, don't misunderstand me, I love my Sebenza and I think its worth every penny, but, isn't that also price control and shouldn't CR Knives come under the same scrutiny as Benchmade did. I LOVE my Sebenza but fair is fair. I welcome comments from either Spark or Mike Turber (I don't remember which) who brought the Benchmade issue to attention.
 
In Canada it is against the law to stop doing business with a company because they sell your products for a discounted price. A manufacturer or supplier would find themselves in real hot water for trying such a thing. The only way around this is to basically consign the products to the dealer, that way the supplier retains ownership of the merchandise and can set whatever price he wants. I thought that the U.S. had similar laws. Am I wrong?

It is good for whomever sells products to know that they will not be undercut by others. That being said I do not like price fixing. I like the idea that competition between dealers means that I may be able to find a better price on something.

I have nothing against CRK trying to maintain the value of their knives, I just didn't know that they could control the prices they were sold for.
 
I think it would be interesting to hear from the dealers what the actual supply/demand is at the given price points. I've been under the impression that the supply is less than the demand at the retail price, so dropping the price wouldn't be necessary to move the merchandise. But that's just my uninformed impression.

Regardless of that, and regardless of whether anyone agrees with the policy or not, the way I look at it is as follows: the dealers have an agreement with CRK regarding pricing structure. If a dealer doesn't honor that agreement, what does that say about the rest of his/her business practices?
 
Someone can (and will, I'm sure :)) correct me if I'm wrong but I don't believe the MFG can control the price a product is sold for. What they can control is the price it is advertised at.

Bose (the speaker company) has been doing it for years.

If you look at one of Sparks more recent threads in the dealer for sale section, he mentions that they can no longer advertise Benchmade below a certain point but that they would be happy to be competitive, you just had to e-mail them to get their best price.

Also keep in mind, that CRK sells direct to volume dealers and then there is a wholesale channel as well. If you see someone sdvertising lower prices and not getting in trouble it's possible that they don't buy from CRK direct, they may buy through a distributor. I don't think CRK can control the price from that sales venue.

Anyway, most of that is speculation so take it FWIW.

:)
 
Call it what you want, but revoking a dealership because of advertising a lesser price is still price control. The end result is that the dealer in question who was selling Sebbies for a few dollars less may be or already is done selling Sebbies. BTW, just so everyone is clear on this subject, the Sebenza is a fine product backed by a fine company employing fine people and I think the Sebenza is worth every penny of price CR Knives lists on their website. But, if I could get a Sebbbie a little cheaper I would certainly do it. The issue here is though is not the value of the Sebbie but price control. Again I would like some comment from Mike Turber on this subject.
 
The time parameters between my post and Dept Services being contacted by CR is beyond coincidence. I felt I had harmed them so I wrote a letter of apology.
The owner of Dept services called me at my home
and I must say he is a very straight up honorable
man. (our conversation was NOT in confidence)
The CR company contacted him stating "Their Knives
are worth the " STRONGLY SUGGESTED!" retail price."
Apparently they were considerably less then friendly. And insisted he sell their product at their "STRONGLY SUGGESTED!" retail price.
His response was, "I will not conduct my business in that manner, and I will no longer carry your line of knives." Thanks for the call John.
 
This is very difficult for me to say and I have to say I am very unhappy saying it, but it has to be said. I love Chris Reeve Knives, I think the products are worth every penny and they have gone above and beyond for me in the not so distant past.

However:( ...

I was very critical of the Benchmade price fixing and supplying to B&M stores at full price over internet dealers. I spoke up and gave them a good shoeing about that.

Now a company I love is doing something similar. I feel genuinly unhappy about this situation. I know I am out of line for voicing this and no doubt will get a good slap for saying this, but how can it be right? I know Chris does not give any quarter on discount at shows, but in business, some quarter is expected. Its all part of the 'game'. I can understand if Chris or/and Anne just want to sell the products at a set price, but is this legal to expect other retailers to never discount? If the retailer want to cut profit to make a sale, whats the problem?

When I contacted Framer last year about buying my Large numbered MM Classic, I asked for some discount (don't we all?) the response was a very serious and curt NO! He explained I would be willing to offer a little discount on almost any knife, but NEVER a CRK, even second hand ones. He was genuinly worried about looseing his dealership agreement.

We have had big cases in the UK of "Rip off Britain". Prices over here have been sickeningly high for far too long on most goods. I guess it is none of my darn business and I ought to shut up right now, but I can't help but feel disapointed about this.

I am truely sorry if my opinions and thoughts offend anyone (esp the great people at CRK), but I felt it was something I had to say.:(
 
Wayne, did you really mean this ??????
However ...

I was very critical of the Benchmade price fixing and supplying to B&M stores at full price over internet dealers. I spoke up and gave them a good shoeing about that.
Click to expand...

And all this time I thought you were mainly pi##ed at them because your 750 sucked............. ;) Have I been misled or what... :eek:

I spoke up and gave them a good shoeing about that.
A good shoeing ????????? Oh Wayne, unless I am badly mistaken; that is most likely what is about to occur here now. You will probably be the 'shoe-ee' rather than the 'shoe-er' though. :(

Maybe, just maybe; my feeble attempt at humor here will curtail some of the 'tounge lashing' you are about to get........ :confused: ....
Don't hold your breath though.........:D

Good luck old friend and a happy holiday season to you,
Chuck
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Wayne, your post has been up now for over three hours if I calculate correctly.

Could it be that my poor attempt at humor has saved your tail???????????? :D
I hope so but most likely the 'heavy hitters' are planning their replys....... :eek: I think you will still end up a 'roasted goose' so to speak though. :( Sorry if it happens, all I will be able to say is I gave it my best shot to truy and save your 'bacon.'

Post a picture of the 'damaged' damascus.......:( I must totally agree w/ you..... that was dumb. :)

Hunker down and get ready for the verbal blasting that looms on your horizion.......... :D
 
Is that thunder I hear? :eek:

I’d have to think back to my class on pricing from grad school days but I’m pretty sure a manufacturer cannot fix the “street” price of a product that is sold through an indirect channel and revoking a dealer’s agreement based on discounting is against US law. The way to stop dealers from advertising at lower than suggested retail prices is to limit co-op money and adjust special discounts to favor companies that follow suggested pricing guidelines. That can’t stop them but it removes any rewards.

The Web amplifies the discounting problem making it hard to support prices and even harder to dictate terms to dealers. Think of the high-end watch manufactures. Patek Philippe for instance can require its US dealers to maintain certain stock levels and even manage the décor of its dealers show areas. All of this creates the “right” experience for the buyers and supports the product image but is expensive to the dealer. Add the web to the mix and a savvy buyer can gain all the benefits of the shopping the local dealer but in the end might find the best price from a Web discounter. The local dealer educated the customer while the Web discounter gets the sale. That hurts the image of the product in the eyes of the manufacturer and punishes the “good” channel.

Maybe the fact that CRK is expanding its distribution and I now see them carried by some of the better mall chain shops (humm… oxymoron?) might be behind their effort to aggressively support prices. It’s clear to me that they provide a quality product and I support any effort by CRK to maintain its positioning in the market and expand its channels of distribution. I suspect it’s an area where CRK will want to tread carefully and choosing a more subtle approach to supporting price levels and allowing prices to fluctuate within a narrow band may be a good strategy.

Ian
 
Either everyone is too busy getting to ready 'eat turkey' (Thanksgiving ya know) over here or my 'wit' (??) has saved your "sorry tail"... :D

I figured you would have been "toast" by now......... even though you did try to do this in a polite way I guessed you would be 'drawn and quartered' in short order.

There may be hope that it will not happen............. ;)
 
I really think that the market should find it's own value. The dealers only have a certain amount of margin to work with. It is their decision if they want to sell for less.

If you can get a Rolex at a discount, why can't you get a sebbie at a discount??

As much as I love 'um, I wouldn't love 'um any less if I could get them for less. ;)

Jeffrey,

I don't think you did anything wrong by informing your fellow forumites where to get the best price on a sebenza. The other stuff is not really your worry.. It is the risk and the cost of doing business.

Cheer Up.. :D :D
 
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