Everything was going great until I decided to beat the knife into a knot in the wood. It came out with two small chips right next to each other. Was this to be expected or do I need to modify my heat treating procedure? Should I consider this a failure or chalk it up as gross abuse?
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I beat a knife into a 2 x 4 and the blade chipped.
- Thread starter jrmy0641
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I don't think the ht is bad. I did the same thing with a condor bushlore the same scenario. No biggie I just ground it flush and pulled the bevel back up. You generally are supposed to avoid knots. Although some steels can handle it, most won't.
I know. Everything was going so well that I figured "why not". Got what I deserved, I suppose. I just have to wonder if it was more my fault or the blade's.
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Well 400F is a little high for that type of knife. I'd go 450-500 for 1084. Its not the highest quality so it won hold up to knots like higher steel will. 1084 is a good overall though.
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What was your geometry like? Do you have any pics?
If the thing is a sharpened pry bar that's different than if it is a delicate scalpel.
Most people prefer a roll to a chip. Far easier to deal with the aftermath. Me personally, I prefer the blade be as hard as is reasonable for its intended use. I wouldn't consider hammering the blade tip into a knot as normal use for *any* knife, but I can certainly see the benefit of testing that way. Some knucklehead customer is bound to do it, and in that case (unless it's intended to take that kind of abuse under your warranty policy), I'd prefer to temper back to a rolling edge/tip.
Hope I'm not speaking out of turn as I don't make blades to sell. I do, however, own, buy and use a lot of blades and think about these things from that perspective.
If the thing is a sharpened pry bar that's different than if it is a delicate scalpel.
Most people prefer a roll to a chip. Far easier to deal with the aftermath. Me personally, I prefer the blade be as hard as is reasonable for its intended use. I wouldn't consider hammering the blade tip into a knot as normal use for *any* knife, but I can certainly see the benefit of testing that way. Some knucklehead customer is bound to do it, and in that case (unless it's intended to take that kind of abuse under your warranty policy), I'd prefer to temper back to a rolling edge/tip.
Hope I'm not speaking out of turn as I don't make blades to sell. I do, however, own, buy and use a lot of blades and think about these things from that perspective.
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Chipping has more to do with geometry and the tempering cycle than it does with 'quality' of steel. 1084 is a perfectly good blade steel and will perform admirably under any circumstance provided the blade was designed for that task. A BG-42 blade with improper geometry and improper tempering for the task of hammering through a pine knot would also fail.
Well, it doesn't look much like a chisel.
Would you suggest two one hour cycles instead of one two hour cycle?
Your scandi grind is designed for carving wood, not chopping wood. As such a harder temper is appropriate for it. For the task that you used it for a 40 degree inclusive and a softer temper is better. Perhaps, you could try a secondary bevel to remove the damage and repeat the test. If the blade chips again, temper your next blade at 450 F.
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Sounds like the proper geometry from the little I know about scandis.
I would be happy with those results if I bought such a knife and handled it that way.
I wouldn't temper it back to take that kind of abuse as it will negatively impact the ability of the steel given its proper intention.
If I made it and sold it, I wouldn't cover it under warranty under those circumstances. I'd probably have a hard time putting another of my pieces in their hand as well since it would be clear that they don't know how to use a knife.
I can fully appreciate your testing, but I'd take what happened as a good sign of proper heat treat.
I would be happy with those results if I bought such a knife and handled it that way.
I wouldn't temper it back to take that kind of abuse as it will negatively impact the ability of the steel given its proper intention.
If I made it and sold it, I wouldn't cover it under warranty under those circumstances. I'd probably have a hard time putting another of my pieces in their hand as well since it would be clear that they don't know how to use a knife.
I can fully appreciate your testing, but I'd take what happened as a good sign of proper heat treat.
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Strig is right on track. That is a task for a hatchet. I do warranty my blades unconditionally (at least for now) but I am also low enough in production that I either already know or get to know my end users. Those users also own a hatchet and know how to use both. In the future I may have to add a stupidity clause. (I know you were testing, thus not being stupid. I'm referring to the mall ninja type that expect certain blades to cut through the engine block of a Mack truck without so much as a scratch.)
I am all for testing and do it to destruction. Part of the reason my numbers are so low and it takes me months to do anything new. If it took that kind of abuse to fail, then your HT and temper was fine. Don't change it.
As for the two hours once vs one hour twice... I was taught more is gained in the cycling than the time at temp for simple carbon steel. The goal is getting the steel in its entirety to temp. Then cooled and back to temp. Once the steel is at temp throughout, nothing is gained through more time. 1 hr is as good as 10. And more than three tempering cycles is pointless. Stacy can put this stuff into words better than I do.
Your temp for tempering was fine for a routine duty knife of average size. Only choppers need be softer and slicers need be harder.
Cheers!
-Eric
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Thanks for the input.