I bought a RW Loveless or is it?

Bruce Bump

Bruce Bump

Joined
Dec 2, 1999
Messages
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A few months ago, a local guy called me and offered to sell me a Loveless for $500. I naturally was interested and bought it. When I had a look it doesn't appear to be very good quality as far as design and workmanship although the materials and the logo are spot on. I later contacted Jim Merritt and he said he didn't make it and he said he's sure Bob didn't make it.

Now what do I do with it? This may be a good discussion as I'm sure there are other questionable knives out there. Jim did say the materials and the logo were right and it may be a students work. He said students weren't allowed to use the logo but maybe one of them did anyway.

I'll get a shot of it asap
 
This thread is useless without pics.
 
I'll give you $80 for it! Just kidding haha

If it ends up not being the real deal I hope you can get your money back if you personally know the seller. If not, then It'll probably be a $500 lesson. Best of luck, looking forward to pictures.
 
Bruce, hope you didn't get stung! but usually if a deal sounds too good to be true it is!!!

A good few years ago a friend of mine bought a Rolex Daytona with all the boxes and papers for a too good to be true price
and I warned him to have a look at the movement, he did'nt, a few years along the line he took it for a service only to find
out it had a Japanese movement in it! Lesson learned.
 
OK I located my pictures from back in April. I guess time flys, I thought it was just a few months ago.

IMG_3057_zps12f41ab6.jpg


IMG_3776_zps50651191.jpg


IMG_3065_zps91f4751d.jpg
 
There are an incredible number of tip offs that would not be a Loveless.....the fit, the grind, the lack of spacers, lack of a tapered tang, the photo etch looks wrong......I think someone made it, and had a copy of the stencil made.

There are good counterfeit Loveless knives, and not good ones. This one was not real good.

If anyone out there can tell me that I don't know what I am talking about, I'd really like to know.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Kohai999 said:
There are an incredible number of tip offs that would not be a Loveless.....the fit, the grind, the lack of spacers, lack of a tapered tang, the photo etch looks wrong......I think someone made it, and had a copy of the stencil made.

There are good counterfeit Loveless knives, and not good ones. This one was not real good.

If anyone out there can tell me that I don't know what I am talking about, I'd really like to know.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

I think you identified some compelling factors supporting forgery.
However, I'm not sure I would use 'fit' (or lack of it) as as an indicator as I've seen authentic Loveless pieces where fit & finish was questionable.
 
Oh that has to hurt!

So many things wrong with that knife.

Someone needs his ass kicked hard.
 
Two additional things...Loveless was an engineer...It's likely he'd have spaced the fastners
more appropriately.
Also the screws...he used 8-32 stainless screws and (usually) 3/8" brass round nut and washer.
Those appear to be large pins and washers(??)...
 
Actually the Logo the green Micarta and Loveless bolts are the only things that ring true to the knives I saw produced in the Loveless shop the times I visited and learned from Mr Loveless in 96-97.

Sorry Bruce, I know it hurts.
My guess is that it was made by another student at the shop that used the stencil while no one was looking.
 
I'm not an expert by any means, so this is just my opinion.

It's a fake because:

1. The handle fasteners are the "mail order" ones, lots of places sell these. They aren't true Loveless fasteners, and are nowhere as strong.

2. The pattern isn't right, looks like they tried to make a Randall ... but it's quite a ways off.

3. The handle grind looks like it was done by a beginner, it's too flat, no contours. Maybe files and sandpaper were used to make the knife, I doubt a grinder was used.

4. The handle material looks like Green Linen micarta, never seen this stuff on a true Loveless, Green Canvas ... but never Green Linen.

5. Plunge grinds look like they were done by a beginner too. Straight drop, no contours ... true, Bob's grinds in the very early years could look a bit rough, but remember his machinery wasn't great, and he wasn't mirror polishing back then. True mirror polishing didn't come along until Steve Johnson. The nude logo didn't come along until later too -by then the plunges were pretty decent.

6. No tapered tang, no red liners.

7. Jim says it isn't real. ;)

The logo is real, but stuff like that can be copied by any immoral scum. It also appears to be laser engraved?

Hope this info's helpful Bruce and you can get your money back.
 
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"stuff like that can be copied by any immoral scum".

Don't always assume the negative. My buddy was a neighbor to the painter Andrew Wyeth. One day in fifth grade he brought home one of his own paintings from school. His dad had died recently and he and his family were in a blue funk. Andrew Wyeth was there and to lighten things up he complimented his work and signed the painting. It was then framed and hung in their home as their only "Wyeth."
 
I do not have much to add but the tipoff to me is the lack of tapered tang, no liners.
Bolts look off and that choil is suspicious ( and if course the price!!)
Dave
 
I believe that Loveless made some knives without tapered tangs, and maybe (?) without liners, too. And as Kevin has pointed out, fit and finish from the Loveless shop over the many years was . . . variable.

Of course there are many here who have forgotten more about Loveless knives than I will ever know, but one thing stands out to me. That handle. It does not look to me like anything that I have seen from Loveless. It looks amateurish. No palmswell. A pseudo "improved handle" type that definitely does not look improved to me. It does not look to me like it was constructed by anyone who had given much thought as to how a human hand is shaped - and that to me is one of the hallmarks of Loveless' knives. Nothing about it speaks to me of the kind of functionality that I see in Loveless handles. And as noted above, this appears to be particularly cheap micarta. If Loveless had actually made that . . . I would have been surprised.

Sorry, Bruce.
 
Good discussion guys. Keep em coming. Don't feel bad for me that I got screwed. The guy that sold it to me needed the money and I've given way more than $500 away before and got less for it in return. At the very least I have a "Loveless" or "not".
 
Kevin Jones said:
I think you identified some compelling factors supporting forgery.
However, I'm not sure I would use 'fit' (or lack of it) as as an indicator as I've seen authentic Loveless pieces where fit & finish was questionable.
Click to expand...

That's a nice way to put it Kevin. ;)
 
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