I ce storm power outage, what do you do?

[Elen]

What would you do if the propane, gas and electric went out in your area for 2 weeks? (You do not have a wood burning stove and it is too icy to evacuate)

Would you build a temporary shelter outside and burn firewood there or huddle in your house?

Seriously? Well, first of all, I would slap myself in the face for not having a good fireplace for keeping the house warm and providing light. I would slap really hard. Then, if it was too icy to evacuate, I would consider shooting myself in the head, because it would have to be the end of the world, and I couldn't be bothered to be around to witness it. Even if it's way past -50 degrees Celcius (that's -58 degrees Fahrenheit for my American friends), I have no problem gearing up and skiing the heck out - that is, if I can't get my car running, and I have even in that kind of temperature. Ice storms practically never happen here, so they're not really a problem, but power tends to go out for other reasons like heavy snowfall. I'd stay in the house most of the time, going out to gather more firewood when necessary, and perhaps to admire the weather. A good freezing winter day keeps a man sharper than anything else in this world, in my view. It wouldn't be a problem. Now, if I was somewhere not at home, and with someone who for some reason hasn't got a fireplace for heating, then I'd consider more drastic measures, like making some makeshift insulations with sheeths, cardboard, newspapers and what not. Most likely I wouldn't bother, unless it was extremely, extremely cold. Would sleep in a good winter sleeping bag, preferably on a sofa so it would be nice and cozy. It would be fun, unless I had to go somewhere in a hurry, which would be drastically boring in that situation. But hey, such is life.

 

[psy-ops]

Elen, the rest of the world is not like Finland. Many, if not most of the houses in America do not have fireplaces. Also, many parts of America are not prepared for ice storms because the Nordic ice god doesn't visit much. When townspeople budget their money they don't buy snow plows or like since ice storms are not frequent.

 

[Coldwood]

Elen, the rest of the world is not like Finland. Many, if not most of the houses in America do not have fireplaces. Also, many parts of America are not prepared for ice storms because the Nordic ice god doesn't visit much. When townspeople budget their money they don't buy snow plows or like since ice storms are not frequent.

Psy-ops, I think you're right about most houses in America...but for those of us on WSS, I think most have or will have a fireplace or woodburning stove. Most of us probably have three heat sources in mind, plus possibly a generator.

People aren't prepared for ice storms because they are a new phenomena, IMHO. Before 98, we never experienced one here in my neck of the woods. Just a few weeks ago the midwest got hit with a major one. They're nasty, I would much prefer a blizzard. Snow I can deal with.

Ice storms happen when temperatures hover around 32F. Elen, in his frozen paradise of -58F, will never see one...he just won't be able to pee outdoors

 

[psy-ops]

Coldpoint, Interesting thoughts. Yes, I am in the process of bettering my life so I could afford some the preparedness supplies I think are necessary. Pump well, Fireplace, generator etc maybe even solar power.

 

[texasboy]

How long can you keep propane before it goes bad. Does it go bad?

 

[Bufford]

The power goes out often in this area. When it does I drag the generator I use for camp outside and fire it up. I have a 2500 Watt Honda, and a new yamaha as well. 2500 watts will power most of the house. Add your load one appliance at a time, so as not to overwhelm the generator when plugging in the extension cord. Then go watch movies, feed the wood burner and carry on with your day.

Keep enough gasoline on hand for a weeks supply, keep your gas fresh by rotating the jerry cans and adding fuel stabilizer. If you don't use your generator often, run it periodically, and change the oil more frequently than the manufacturer specifies. I do this because the oil sumps in both the Honda and Yamaha are so small- about half a quart (liter). I think they do this just to make them wear out sooner, but the oil does go dark fast, after just a few nights at the camp.

If you plan to use the computer on your generator, make sure that the generator produces current clean enough for computer use, as some warn against doing this. Also do not use the computer with the fridge or other motors that require a heavy draw on startup. This causes voltage drops, and I learned this the hard way when I burn't the hard drive out on the other computer. On the upside, the internet is alot faster when the power is out as there are fewer people on line. I used to do this back when I had dial up, and it was really fast during outages.

 

[Elen]

Elen, the rest of the world is not like Finland. Many, if not most of the houses in America do not have fireplaces. Also, many parts of America are not prepared for ice storms because the Nordic ice god doesn't visit much. When townspeople budget their money they don't buy snow plows or like since ice storms are not frequent.

Well, the world needs a lesson. For example, Finland needs to seriously look at how the tax system works in the States, and do that. Similarly, at least large parts of the USA would do well to look at how winter is handled in Finland - proper studded winter tires for cars, properly constructed houses and such things. These things save lives. They're worth the price. :thumbup:

Psy-ops, I think you're right about most houses in America...but for those of us on WSS, I think most have or will have a fireplace or woodburning stove. Most of us probably have three heat sources in mind, plus possibly a generator.

People aren't prepared for ice storms because they are a new phenomena, IMHO. Before 98, we never experienced one here in my neck of the woods. Just a few weeks ago the midwest got hit with a major one. They're nasty, I would much prefer a blizzard. Snow I can deal with.

Ice storms happen when temperatures hover around 32F. Elen, in his frozen paradise of -58F, will never see one...he just won't be able to pee outdoors

Hey, it's not always -58 here. That kind of cold is very rare. Icestorms have occurred in Scandinavia a number of times, but they are extremely rare, due to the temperature and other climate conditions they require. Even so, it's always wisest to be prepared. Winter is an annual thing in the USA, too. It keeps on surprising me how a lot of the people around there don't prepare for it properly.

 

[Coldwood]

Well, the world needs a lesson. For example, Finland needs to seriously look at how the tax system works in the States, and do that. Similarly, at least large parts of the USA would do well to look at how winter is handled in Finland - proper studded winter tires for cars, properly constructed houses and such things. These things save lives. They're worth the price. :thumbup:

Hey, it's not always -58 here. That kind of cold is very rare. Icestorms have occurred in Scandinavia a number of times, but they are extremely rare, due to the temperature and other climate conditions they require. Even so, it's always wisest to be prepared. Winter is an annual thing in the USA, too. It keeps on surprising me how a lot of the people around there don't prepare for it properly.

Elen, LOL Yes the world does need some lessons and I think some good ones could be learned from the history of Finland (I'm reading about the Winter War).

Us folks in the US who live in northern climates are generally well prepared to deal with winter. Last night, here where I live, it was -10F and we have two feet of snow on the ground. Snooze. Business as usual for this time of year. Back in the 70's, I remember about a week in January where it would get to -30F. Well, we dealt with it. No big deal.

What we are seeing now is some climate change (I do not want to get into that argument, climate changes all the time) and winter conditions are starting to move farther south...those people just freak out if they get an inch of snow, but that's not really new, I remember getting snow in Georgia back in the '60's...and snow is not really new to the midwest or even Texas. In the meantime, northern winters are getting milder. Take that, those of you who would call us snowbirds

Well, we learn to adapt, the great saving grace for the human race.

 

[psy-ops]

Elen, I appreciate your presence on these boards. It is important to have other perspectives on issues.

 

[ROCK6]

Depending on just how cold it was I would either close off one room and hunker down there or if it was really cold I'd pitch my tent in the living room and pile all of our blankets in and on top of it to crate the smallest possible space to keep warm in.

That's what I was thinking. We do have a fireplace...not the most efficient, but if kept just in the living room with the other rooms sealed off it would be fine. Also, I've thougt about the tent in the living room as well. No different than outdoors...in fact better. Plus, if it really drops in temperatures outside, that tent would really help at retaining body heat or the heat of a small candle.

As Fiddleback mentioned, I use to keep 2 full propone tanks as spares (need to get a new gas grill though). One of those portable propane heaters with the automatic shut-off (for CO) is pretty safe and would really help to heat up a smaller area.

Start stocking up on candles, surplus wool blankets and a good heating backup source; if you don't have a fireplace, look at the propane space heaters...kerosene heaters is another option, but they give me a bad headache.

We've been using our fireplace a lot the last couple of weeks. It's amazing how much firewood you can go through just for a few hours in the morning and at night. I usually keep a 1/2 cord on hand, and that would only get us through a week if we used it only during the morning and at night. When I was younger (in the Northwest), we used to heat our house exclusively off of a wood stove. My dad has upgraded to a new system and doesn't use the wood stove anymore, but he still has about 3 years of wood stocked!

Still need some planning in this area, but here in TX, you don't get long cold spells, and most of the time it warms up pretty good during the day.

ROCK6

 

[ROCK6]

Winter is an annual thing in the USA, too. It keeps on surprising me how a lot of the people around there don't prepare for it properly.

I do agree about the lesson-part, but there is a pretty big difference in climatic zones in the US where you could conceivably travel from 10 feet of snow and sub-zero temperatures to sunny and much warmer conditions in just a few hours.

It's not so much about being prepared as it is being equipped. I grew up in the Northwest (Washington State). Some places in the cascades are quite prepared; even the cities have budgets for snow plows and salt and at certain times, the roads require tire chains. Once you get down to, say Seattle, they just don't get severe weather enough to budget for those conditions, so when they hit, they have tragic consequences. Additionally there's quite a few people that move around here (like my wife who was from Florida) and may have never grown up in an area where they had to drive or deal with colder temperatures, snow or ice.

I do agree that before people travel or move, they should do a little homework especially during the different seasons...whether it's snow, hurricanes, floods or fires...


ROCK6

 

[Elen]

Elen, I appreciate your presence on these boards. It is important to have other perspectives on issues.

Thank you, the feeling is quite mutual. It's rather interesting for me to read about all you guys' experiences over there, since it really is quite different. For a simple example, mountain lions! The biggest cats we've got are lynx lynx, and they don't stalk humans, ever.

I do agree about the lesson-part, but there is a pretty big difference in climatic zones in the US where you could conceivably travel from 10 feet of snow and sub-zero temperatures to sunny and much warmer conditions in just a few hours.

It's not so much about being prepared as it is being equipped. I grew up in the Northwest (Washington State). Some places in the cascades are quite prepared; even the cities have budgets for snow plows and salt and at certain times, the roads require tire chains. Once you get down to, say Seattle, they just don't get severe weather enough to budget for those conditions, so when they hit, they have tragic consequences. Additionally there's quite a few people that move around here (like my wife who was from Florida) and may have never grown up in an area where they had to drive or deal with colder temperatures, snow or ice.

I do agree that before people travel or move, they should do a little homework especially during the different seasons...whether it's snow, hurricanes, floods or fires...
ROCK6

Yeah, I know there is - it's one of the things that makes certain huge countries like the USA and Russia so interesting. Still, unless I'm mistaken, there are, for example, some pretty ridiculous and even outright dangerous laws you've got there, with respect to winter conditions. I don't know where I heard that in most parts of the USA studded winter tires are illegal - if, and that's probably a big if, that's a good example of just plain wrong conditions. Studded winter tires are a must for icy conditions. The way houses are built is another. The insulation really doesn't seem to be too great in most places there. That is bad not only in terms of conserving energy, but also conserving heat if things go south badly and the power decides to go when it's really cold.

 

[ROCK6]

Yeah, I know there is - it's one of the things that makes certain huge countries like the USA and Russia so interesting. Still, unless I'm mistaken, there are, for example, some pretty ridiculous and even outright dangerous laws you've got there, with respect to winter conditions. I don't know where I heard that in most parts of the USA studded winter tires are illegal - if, and that's probably a big if, that's a good example of just plain wrong conditions. Studded winter tires are a must for icy conditions. The way houses are built is another. The insulation really doesn't seem to be too great in most places there. That is bad not only in terms of conserving energy, but also conserving heat if things go south badly and the power decides to go when it's really cold.

I can't be too certain of the studded tire laws, but if I remember correctly (I've been in Geogia, Kansas, Texas and Iraq in the last 3 years), the studded tires tear up the roads (a lot less than chains though)...somebody may know more than I on that one. Houses are typically built to regional codes and standards, but most are at the base level cost-wise and insulation is usually very poor across the board. For all the whackos that cry about conservation, pollution and global warming...we spend more time arguing and less time/money fixing the easy problems such as insulating a home properly. Most of us (Americans) are pretty ignorant at the simple ways of being prepared...the good thing is that with a little homework, budgeting and planning...everything you need is right around the corner, on the internet or easily traded for with some local connections.

I'm in the military, so I've done my share of traveling. I do remember having to pay extra for AC when buying a vehicle in the Seattle area, yet down here in TX, it's a standard feature. I have a couple of platic bins with all my "cold weather" clothing, but the temperature barely dips into the 20-30 degree zone and only for a couple days here in TX. You do acclimate though. I was getting chilly last year in Iraq when it was in the 70's and if felt cooler when it dropped from 120 to 105 degrees

ROCK6

 

[Coldwood]

Still, unless I'm mistaken, there are, for example, some pretty ridiculous and even outright dangerous laws you've got there, with respect to winter conditions. I don't know where I heard that in most parts of the USA studded winter tires are illegal - if, and that's probably a big if, that's a good example of just plain wrong conditions. Studded winter tires are a must for icy conditions. The way houses are built is another. The insulation really doesn't seem to be too great in most places there. That is bad not only in terms of conserving energy, but also conserving heat if things go south badly and the power decides to go when it's really cold.

Agreed. Regarding studded tires, I do believe they are legal in most of the northern states that experience regular snow and ice. However, we can't run them all year long because they do tear up pavement. In New York State, if I remember correctly, we can mount studded snow tires in October when we expect the first snowfall, but take them off in March. Back in the good old days, people used to drive with chains on their tires, but I don't think many do that anymore.

In my town, snow removal is so efficient (snow plows, sanding) I don't even use snow tires anymore, I use all-weather radials. If it's really nasty out there, I just stay home and stay off the roads.

Home insulation is all over the place. I think it's very good now with new home construction because of awareness of home energy conservation. On the other hand, we bought an old 1880 farm house. There is nothing between the outside and inside walls but dead air. Well in 1880 they were just happy to keep the wind out, and they didn't have anything available for wall insulation. As I'm upgrading this house, of course I put in new insulation.

 

[Elen]

Agreed. Regarding studded tires, I do believe they are legal in most of the northern states that experience regular snow and ice. However, we can't run them all year long because they do tear up pavement. In New York State, if I remember correctly, we can mount studded snow tires in October when we expect the first snowfall, but take them off in March. Back in the good old days, people used to drive with chains on their tires, but I don't think many do that anymore.

In my town, snow removal is so efficient (snow plows, sanding) I don't even use snow tires anymore, I use all-weather radials. If it's really nasty out there, I just stay home and stay off the roads.

Home insulation is all over the place. I think it's very good now with new home construction because of awareness of home energy conservation. On the other hand, we bought an old 1880 farm house. There is nothing between the outside and inside walls but dead air. Well in 1880 they were just happy to keep the wind out, and they didn't have anything available for wall insulation. As I'm upgrading this house, of course I put in new insulation.

Yeah, studded tires do tear up the roads pretty badly, and in Finland it's also forbidden to use them in the summer months, unless the weather requires it (that is to say, unless it's cold and snowy). There aren't many places in the world where they would be useful all year round. In any case, even if studded tires tear up the roads, they're more than worth it. The roads don't care, and they can be fixed - on the other hand, there's no way to fix a human who died in a car accident because they had useless tires.

Efficient snow removal is good, but not something one can always rely on. I like to prepare for surprises - like getting surprised by an early snow storm in the autumn.

The problem is of course that being prepared is expensive. Studded tires, properly insulated houses and all that - expensive stuff, unfortunately.

 

[Ravaillac]

Heard somewhere people in quebec don't carry chains or studded tires, why? they got efficient winter road services, and studded tires damage roads most of the time.

As for preparedness, it is all about a cost benefit ratio. Buying winter gear in Finland is obvious since you'll use the stuff every year, but should people in, say Florida, get complete arctic gear or design their houses based on a type of climatic event that happens every 10 years or even less frequently. Guess spending a week in an hotel / or living miserably for a few daysevery 10 years or more is still less expensive than rebuilding your house.

Not sure your house in Finland is ready to go through a tropical hurricane or a midwest tornado.

On the over hand cities that don't budget funds for events that happen on regular basis are being incompetent.

 

[Elen]

Heard somewhere people in quebec don't carry chains or studded tires, why? they got efficient winter road services, and studded tires damage roads most of the time.

As for preparedness, it is all about a cost benefit ratio. Buying winter gear in Finland is obvious since you'll use the stuff every year, but should people in, say Florida, get complete arctic gear or design their houses based on a type of climatic event that happens every 10 years or even less frequently. Guess spending a week in an hotel / or living miserably for a few daysevery 10 years or more is still less expensive than rebuilding your house.

Not sure your house in Finland is ready to go through a tropical hurricane or a midwest tornado.

On the over hand cities that don't budget funds for events that happen on regular basis are being incompetent.

Efficient road services don't account for much outside large cities and the main roads. There isn't a system in the whole wide universe that can keep the roads clear if a proper blizzard decides to strike without much of a warning. In Finland, like in all other countries, the road services are the most efficient in large cities. And consequentially, the largest and most fatal accidents happen in these places with excellent road service, because when the weather gets so severe even excellent road services can no longer keep up, people get surprised, and because they weren't prepared, many of them die, or get injured. Not fun.

I agree, it's all about cost to benefit. I believe people should decide for themselves and weigh the benefits as carefully as they can. For me, if it can save my life or mine even in a very unlikely situation, then it's worth nearly any cost within my means. If only things were as simple as "large financial investment" vs "a couple of days of living in a hotel or in general state of misery while the bad situation passes." In reality, it's not that simple, of course. Instead of an unpleasant stay in a full hotel for a couple of nights, or huddling inside a cold house waiting for the power to come back on, the result for some very real people is death, quite irreversible. Just this year, I seem to recall a number of people dying in storms over in the USA. I wonder how many of those lives could have been saved?

As for my house, I'm confident that it would take a hurricane or a tornado just as well if not better than most houses of similar size in areas where these things actually happen with some frequency. I'm also confident that a large earthquake would tear this place apart like a house of cards - that's not something I can help any, so I guess I hope there won't be any earthquakes.

Personally, I think a lot of people readily spend money on things they will under no conditions need, and yet refuse to spend money on things that might in some cases save their very lives. I guess that's human.

 

[Coldwood]

Just this year, I seem to recall a number of people dying in storms over in the USA. I wonder how many of those lives could have been saved?

Not to get overly simplistic, but people die every day. Of course when it happens during a snow storm, the media call it a "deadly killer storm." And it's not an American problem, we've been dealing with winter driving ever since cars were invented. We have some experience with it. I don't mean to be confrontational, Elen, but how many people have died on the roads in Finland this winter? I know, probably a lot fewer than here, but there must have been some.

Living in snow country, I notice that some people do tend to get stupid. They go out in the storm when they should stay home, they drive too fast as if they can outrun the storm (and because they're overconfident about their vehicle), or they drive so slow that they cause other people to pass them on bad road conditions. I prefer to stay home, if possible.

 

[Elen]

Not to get overly simplistic, but people die every day. Of course when it happens during a snow storm, the media call it a "deadly killer storm." And it's not an American problem, we've been dealing with winter driving ever since cars were invented. We have some experience with it. I don't mean to be confrontational, Elen, but how many people have died on the roads in Finland this winter? I know, probably a lot fewer than here, but there must have been some.

Living in snow country, I notice that some people do tend to get stupid. They go out in the storm when they should stay home, they drive too fast as if they can outrun the storm (and because they're overconfident about their vehicle), or they drive so slow that they cause other people to pass them on bad road conditions. I prefer to stay home, if possible.

Well, sure, people die every day. But sometimes they die of reasons other than "natural", natural being old age or sickness due to eating junk and poison for forty years. People do die, all over the world, just because they weren't equipped for the situation, be that an attack from an armed criminal or a road that has gotten very slippery thanks to black ice. It's certainly not an American problem, it's a global problem. But some people and some areas in general deal with the problem with different levels of effectiveness.

A lot of folks have died on the roads this year in Finland, as is the case every year. However, a lot, lot more would have died if proper winter tires had been outlawed. Actually, many of those that did die on the roads were driving with "all-weather" or studless "winter tires" - tires that might be pretty good on snow, but on ice, have all the grip of an oiled-up snake. Now, of course a lot of people manage to get themselves killed in spite of all precautions, simply by being stupid, like driving far too fast for the road conditions, or just driving otherwise recklessly.

It would, in theory, be best to stay home when the weather is severe, but that's hardly an option in the real world in countries like Finland where some areas literally have six months of winter, if not more. If one is working, it's rather hard to just stay home due to the weather for months and months. If you're unlucky, serious blizzards can be a daily thing. Winter driving isn't all that hard with the proper gear, and the proper mindset. Good thing, or the economy would totally crash every winter because people couldn't leave their homes to get to work, or anywhere else for that matter.

 

[AlexSchira]

Out here in the Arctic of Chicago, I see people biking to work in below zero temperatures. Friend of mine out in the suburbs does the same thing on unpaved trails, it's physically impossible if the snow is soft and thick enough, but he was ducking downed trees and hopping the low branches after a huge ice storm. Lot of other people called off work that night because of the ice, he shows up in a parka and balaclava saying the stars look amazing.
Mindset can get you through most anything. Sheltering in is the ideal option, but businesses still run. My friend worked at a movie theater, and they actually had a lot of people showing up who had a power outage or just wanted to go to a movie despite the outrageous weather.

Favorite thing to do after a power outage or during one, is go to Target or the like and look at the flashlight section. No one ever goes back there except some tradesmen and gadget junkies, but after a power outage every battery and cheap light in the place is long gone.