I do it and do it and do it and it feels good but . . .

Wowbagger

Wowbagger

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The Chef says there is a flaw in my technique. :( Being a keen student of this I want to learn and improve. So I turn to you, my fellow knife knuts . . .

I don’t really feel this belongs in the Kitchen Knife Section but I understand if it winds up there. I cut exactly like this regularly at work on the bench (which is too high) and on non food related items.

The idea for the thread came to me after I was done cutting; that’s why the apple is all cut up already.

Well I suppose from my wood working back ground and various body / fitness disciplines the way I hold a parring knife for slicing / cutting up fruit . . . lets pick apples since they provide a fare amount of resistance . . . my preferred grip . . . and part of the reason I chose to mod this Urban Trapper and other knives . . . is so I can have my thumb on top (index underneath) and press down with my thumb and cantilever with my two smallest fingers (pull upward with those) (pivoting on my middle finger (of course)).

I don’t have to really grip the knife just press and pivot with a relaxed hand and
more importantly the alignment of my wrist and forearm are natural and relaxed (not twisted and locked).

See first photo. Note the cutting board is parallel to the counter and my stance. My forearm and the knife are perpendicular to that and my line of sight is directly over the cut and I can judge if I am parallel to the end of the last cut.

One key to mention I am a little taller than The Chef but not a lot.


NOW

The Chef likes to grip (and I underline that) the sides of the knife handle between her thumb and index finger.
The next two photos are of her doing that; the first of those with my Urban Trapper knife with the KreyEx handles which she handed back to me as if it were an old dead rat (it was washed clean this morning; blade and handle) The next photo is of her, she is using her preferred kitchen EDC my old "out in the world" EDC the regular German paring knife (sorry, it is so old I forget the brand and have ground and polished the logo off).

Anyway my point is her grip, looks to me, as if it twists and locks her wrist and forces her to angle the knife across the edge of the counter thus making line of sight for parallel cuts more difficult and unreliable. She says she can judge the cut just fine.

The fact that she has to grip the side surfaces of that slick skinny handle seems to just add to hand and wrist fatigue. Part of the reason I changed my grip and the handle material to the Urban Trapper with wider KreyEx grips.

Now the comment about our height diff., she is by no means short but the counters are too high for both of us (in my opinion) and she says she even stands on tip toe some times. We don’t have room for a free standing butcher block but that would be AWESOME !

She does have wrist problems but mostly she says form handling real rifles in marching bands and tons of typing now. She spent the first half of her life prepping and Cheffing so I’m not saying I’m right; just seemed like a great topic for a table banging discussion.

I have zero wrist problems, knock on wood, and I handle tools / wrenches most every day.

? ? Each to his own and it doesn’t matter or what say you all ? ?

PS: I’m not going to be a total douche and say I told you so; I’ll discuss it if she asks. I’m just thinking this is an interesting thread to post.

Note the edge of the counter for reference for her body alignment.


Now with my older slick handled paring knife.


The two knives we are talking about.
 
You are using a hammer grip. She is using a pinch grip. Many pros use a pinch grip. Though usually with a pinch grip you are actually holding the blade by the thumb and index finger, not the handle. You would both do better using something along the lines of a chef's knife or gyuto which provides knuckle clearance off the board. I use a 7" gyuto for apple slicing on a cutting board.

Kitchensource carries a wide range of Boos tables at good prices and in various sizes. I ordered one of the Boos Chef Block tables from them as our Christmas present and it is a great piece of furniture. Heavy duty and good looking. I still use a wooden cutting board on top of it but you could cut directly it if you want, which is what it was made for.


*I use a pinch grip myself - makes for finer control of what I am doing.
 
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I can't think of any time I use a hammer grip with a knife, unless I'm chopping or powering through something, like whittling large chunks of wood maybe, or if what ever I'm cutting is angled (away and to my right, being right handed) that no other grip can accomplish the cut.
Most of my knife use away from the kitchen is fairly precise and requires a pinch grip, usually just in front of the scales. Sometimes for more control, I shift my grip forward with 3 fingers underneath for support, thumb on side of blade, and index finger on the spine.

IMO, listen to your Chef.
 
JC,

You would both do better using something along the lines of a chef's knife or guyto which provides knuckle clearance off the board
Click to expand...

She did mention that.
I'm still kind of stuck in the one knife challenge though I don't seem to be able to stick to it.

Thanks man for the info.
 
Thanks everyone,

It's been a MAJOR education for me.
Hmmmmm

I need to try this pinch grip thing more.
 
Cutting stuff at work and kitchen work is way different. I find both methods work for it's intended use. At work I'm cutting cardboard, zip ties, plastic sleeves and the such. So, a firm grip is needed as in the first pic. Now, in the kitchen, the second pic is more suited for me. I've also trimmed various meats and the pinch grip works better.
I understand your idea of a one knife, do all work in the kitchen. However, do you use one tool at work for all the jobs you have to do? Why should it be different in the kitchen. As much as I like a paring knife and mine gets used more than any other knife I have in the kitchen, when it comes to chopping, I prefer to use a chopper. I'm sure you've heard the right tool for the right job saying a time or two.
Besides, when it comes to the kitchen, the chef rules the roost and usually knows best. :)
 
To do that task with that knife, I'd use a pinch grip but would probably diagonally draw the knife from say the 9:30-10 o clock position to the 3:30-4 o clock position. I say that because, as mentioned above, both of those knives are all wrong for that type of work. The paring knife is fine for detail work, but rough prep like that should be done with a much larger knife.

If I'm using something like that Urban Trapper to cut up an apple it's usually one piece at a time while having lunch, not doing prep work in the kitchen.

Do whatever works for you though. As long as you're not doing an entire bushel you shouldn't have to worry about any real fatigue or injury.
 
Ajack60 said:
Cutting stuff at work and kitchen work is way different. I find both methods work for it's intended use. At work I'm cutting cardboard, zip ties, plastic sleeves and the such. So, a firm grip is needed as in the first pic. Now, in the kitchen, the second pic is more suited for me. I've also trimmed various meats and the pinch grip works better.
I understand your idea of a one knife, do all work in the kitchen. However, do you use one tool at work for all the jobs you have to do? Why should it be different in the kitchen. As much as I like a paring knife and mine gets used more than any other knife I have in the kitchen, when it comes to chopping, I prefer to use a chopper. I'm sure you've heard the right tool for the right job saying a time or two.
Besides, when it comes to the kitchen, the chef rules the roost and usually knows best. :)
Click to expand...


Agreed. Two different grips for different purposes. I mostly do the cooking around the house and I use a pinch grip on the blade. I find that this gives me more fine control. When I need to exert more pressure I change to hammer grip. The pinch grip on the blade works better with a wide blade like a gyuto for example. It's harder to do with a narrow bladed knife like a paring knife.
 
Wrist problems come from repetition. Her typing and you 'handling various tools and being all fitness-ed up' are not comparable. The variety of things you work with is what keeps you from having wrist problems, whereas her single type of motion habit makes hers worse. Also, the grip question is moot. Your method wouldnt last an hour in a pro kitchen. Your hand would palm cramp so bad that a dishrag would be th only thing you could hold after the first bowl of bruschetta you did up. Also, a knife block has different shapes of blades for a reason: who dices with a fkn paring knife? Same people who try and cut tournays with a french pattern chef's knife, probably.
 
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