i dont believe in your fighting techniques

T

thekuntawman

Joined
Nov 28, 1999
Messages
235
learn how to say this, or at least learn how to say "hey i would like to try my teachnique against yours". this is how you become a better fighter, build your reputation as a fighter, and get confidence in the technique you know.

you know what i look down on 95% of the arnis/eskrima i come across, as visitors to my school know this. the way to change my view is to spar with me, or have one of your students fight my student. because i have this attitude, i can say to my students "this is how you beat so and so" and look him in the eye. do my students win all the time, no, but they have no fear around other fighters. and if you have no confidence, what good is your knowledge.

one thing i notice in the "FMA" community, is people who demonstrate technique and drills, and if its something another person doesnt know, he is "impressed" and now he wants to learn it. everybody is doing what everybody else is doing, and nobody knows who can beat who. so i say, they are good at demoing, and drilling, because who saw them do anything else. in 1999 i did a "seminar" at CSUS, and a visiting arnis teacher asked me can he give me a suggestion, he said two things, teach more techniques and forget the sparring. sparring they can do at home (i dont think they will) and they came all the way here for something new. technique collectors. show me something i can show my friends. everytime i teach, you can bet you going to do at least 500 hits. and if i am not going to see you for a long time, we are going to spar. period. keep your money.

when you met somebody from another style, if you miss the chance to fight them, you miss the chance to get better and learn about another style, i dont care what he showed to you.

when somebody tells you he doesnt make sense what you are talking about, smile, pick up your weapon, then show him.
 
Hello Kuntawman, et all

There are many people in the martial arts community who share the "hard core" approach to training. As well there are many who very rarely lay it on the line with their students and spar. There is a school not to far from me, where when practicing Arnis, they don't even hit each others sticks! When their students visit and train with us, they drop their sticks when hit, and remark "I wish we did something like this." :barf:

Although, I respect all who are practicing the arts(in all their forms), for way too many out of shape people here in the USA do nothing to help themselves, I hope that all Instructors and students who are serious about their lives on the street are engaging in hard practice! Hitting objects, integrating footwork in real time, sparring, putting in the extra effort each time you practice is what separates an average practitioner from a great practitioner.

Gumagalang
Guro Steve
 
Hey Maurice,

I use a similar and subtle approach through seminars too. I enjoy seeing or learning new things but I also assess their "fighting" methods. I like to get an idea of how they use certain techniques, evaluate it and develop my strategies for both defense and counters.

It is not uncommon for schools back home to still issue challenge bouts to newly opened schools, sometimes with hostility too. In other words don't tell me about your art...show me or prove it. Unfortunately, this mentality or approach is not viewed well by many so you must find other ways.

I frequently get together with close friends from other styles and it's rarely been about comparison. It always ends up a sparring session and without animosity. Did we learn anything? Yes, what works and what doesn't.

Regards,

John
 
Idont Know why some of you think that this or that has to bee the best back home we call it Being Big Headed!! My opinion of the Different ''Art's is Hey each there Own Some have Better Form's than other's Depending on What Kind of Fight!! I Dont know Many People here or in the P.I Who Daily Carry ''Stick's'' I Doubt any of the ""Bragger's Have Ever Seen George Dillman In Person!! This Guy can and will Knock you out Cold in 2-3 Second's Sometime's Not Even Touching You!! Spar With Him !! Then Accept A Little Humility !! I Know Many Such ''Teacher's "" Being A Great Fighter Mean's Nothing if you Must Tell the World !! Being Great Mean's The World Tell's You Your Great !! i Dont Start Fight's and am Not Trying to Start One Here Just Pointing Out a Couple of Thing's That Commonly Get Over looked By ''Bata'' Youth
 
I don't think these discussions have had anything to do with one style being better than the other. Besides, we all know it's not the art but the practitioner.

However, I do believe it may be of personal goals, to be the best at what you do. To be the best within your own style is a small accomplishment compared to gaining the Respect from practitioners outside.

You wrote> I Dont know Many People here or in the P.I Who Daily Carry ''Stick's''

It is obvious that you do not have much knowledge in the Filipino Martial Arts.
 
Please Tell Me Where in The Phillipine's People Carry their ''Stick's '' Daily I Will ''Check it out on My next Visit ''Home'' You May be Right!! But in the Time's and Places of the Phillipine's I Have Never Seen Anyone Carring their ''Stick's Not Even the Children
 
Originally posted by Pinoy Knife
Idont Know why some of you think that this or that has to bee the best back home we call it Being Big Headed!! My opinion of the Different ''Art's is Hey each there Own Some have Better Form's than other's Depending on What Kind of Fight!! I Dont know Many People here or in the P.I Who Daily Carry ''Stick's'' I Doubt any of the ""Bragger's Have Ever Seen George Dillman In Person!! This Guy can and will Knock you out Cold in 2-3 Second's Sometime's Not Even Touching You!! Spar With Him !! Then Accept A Little Humility !! I Know Many Such ''Teacher's "" Being A Great Fighter Mean's Nothing if you Must Tell the World !! Being Great Mean's The World Tell's You Your Great !! i Dont Start Fight's and am Not Trying to Start One Here Just Pointing Out a Couple of Thing's That Commonly Get Over looked By ''Bata'' Youth
Click to expand...

this is not about being "big head" or bragging. i am talking about believing in your fighting style, and training to make your belief reality. when you are so easy to convince that another way of fighting is better than the way you are using now, you will never elavate yourself to the high levels of skill in the fighting art. so there is many other styles out there, do you have to learn them all, or do you develop your own knowledge and skill to a level where you can beat someone using that technique? since you are talking about children, it is childrens thinking that all i need to know is this new technique and i will become unbeatable.

one of my friends who teaches me to wrestle, likes to joke about the video and seminar goers who call himselves "grapplers/mixed martial artist". they have a background in tae kwon do or some other kind of martial art, but they abandon it, and learn all these ways to fight on the ground, and now they know how to grapple.

to "know" a teachnique good enough to use it in a fight, you have to be "good" at it. for many arnis players, they only "know" how to do a technique from many styles and seminars. but they dont get good at it, and that is why they are beginners of many styles, and even with 10-15 years in the art, they are beginner.

the challenge appoach to martial art, is, if you see another technqiue that you dont know about, and you are able to fight with someone from that style, you should do it, so you advance your style by learning how to use it against another method of fighting which you dont know much about. and if you lost so what. you can figure out why you lost, and find a way so you dont lost that fight again. before you know it, you are using the same 30-50 techniques against many different styles, and you are a true expert at your style.
 
i met a student who is not my own student but one of eddie chong, a wing chun teacher in my city. this young guy (about 25, but he is young in martial arts) told me, wing chun is not effective, they use hands only. he rented some video from our local martial art supply store on daniel inosantos "kali" tapes, and he is convinced wing chun is not complete without the philippine fighting arts. i asked him how long did he study with mr chong, he said 3 months. after talking to him i help him to realize that of course what a beginner of three months knows he cant do much to a person who is doing intermediate techniques and skill like he saw on the inosanto tape. i talked him to going back to wing chun, and give it a chance. if he knows the stuff on the tape, then use it to beat mr chong, who is a long time sifu of kung fu. i dont know what happened, if he is courageous enough to fight with the kung fu teacher, the next time i see him he will swear to me that kung fu is unbeatable.:D

the martial artist should be convinced that his art is not good only after he gets beaten by someone using another style, and then he can only believed that he is not good enough at his style to beat that person. keep hopping around, and you will end up as a "forever beginner" with beginner skills. train hard in whatever you know, and try yourself out against other people a lot, and then train some more, and you will find that moving around is a waste of time.

mike tyson was in a interview in japan, why he did not accept a match with a judo champion there. he said he might fight on the street, and the guy asked him how can he deal with the takedown of the judo man. mike tyson, said to the guy " the question is, can he get in past my punch, if he can, i deserved that ass whipping." get good at what you do, and you are not going to have to fight the other guys fight. even if you know a little about his style and you fight his style, do you think you can beat him at his game.

challenging is how we move our understanding and our skill to a higher level instead of trust in our fantasy and dreamings.
 
Originally posted by Pinoy Knife
Please Tell Me Where in The Phillipine's People Carry their ''Stick's '' Daily I Will ''Check it out on My next Visit ''Home'' You May be Right!! But in the Time's and Places of the Phillipine's I Have Never Seen Anyone Carring their ''Stick's Not Even the Children
Click to expand...

:grumpy:
if you are a stick fighter and you dont have some kind of weapon around (not everywhere you go, but some times at least), you are not a stick fighter. karate men dont go around on the streets with his nunchaks and bo staff. NRA members dont take his gun to the movies. "knifers" dont carry a knife into the health club. weapons practice is for "just in case", like everything in the martial arts we do. but true fighters have a back up way to fight when he doesnt have that weapons.
 
Boss Maurice,

Ang galing mo talaga! BTW, I hope you still speak Tagalog so you can understand what I'm saying here. :D

My friend is a classic case of that forever beginner you were talking about. He keeps flitting around from one arnis style to another, from Lightning Scientific Arnis, to Pekiti-Tirsia kali, and then back to Lightning scientific, and then wants to explore Arnis Cruzada. I asked him why and he said he isn't about to pay 500 pesos to my teacher just to do 300 to 400 full power strikes on hanging tires and be shown just 4 techniques in a day. He would rather be taught strikes, disarms, counters and recounters in a "painless" manner that in his words "are fun". After I probed him further I realized he didn't just have a sense of false economy, he was actually displeased when he asked my teacher if he could wrap tape around his hands and fingers BEFORE even starting to hit the tires. Of course my teacher said NO WAY, and my friend wasn't willing to get any calluses or blisters on his hands (he's not even a pianist or a surgeon!) so he quit. To this day he questions the training method. I can't blame him if he has an issue with the distance I travel to train in Pekiti-Tirsia (marikina to paranaque is 10km one way pa lang), and the tuition (quite pricey if you consider Philippine peso values), but THIS?? I told him this is the traditional way of training and that he should drop the fascination with picking up techniques every training day WITHOUT sparring or even tire hitting and that he should be happy he has access to this style even if it means a little more travel.
 
"NRA members dont take his gun to the movies. "knifers" dont carry a knife into the health club. "

UMMMMM yeah, we do.

ever hear of compact handguns in 9mm, .40 and .45 ? usualy glocks, kahr auto, or if I'm slumming, S&W J frame .357

as for knives, well, their are these brands with clips, called spyderco or emerson, and a civilian goes great IWB for the health club, or anywere else i care to carry it.
 
Heh ya really...

I agree with memnoch. I almost always have a pistol 'on' or 'with' me when I go out. Always have a knife too, even when I can't carry my Glock. No matter what I'm doing there is always something within easy reach, although few people would ever notice it. I guess if there are people out there who dont think I carry my gun to the movies then I'm doing everything just right! ;)
 
Now I remember why I laid low from the scene for the last two years. *sigh*

My positive spin on it is this... anybody willing to hook up for a friendly get together over java and a snack? Maybe even exchange some stories and a little technique. Am willing to share and listen.

The only expense I am expecting both of us to dole out is our TIME. If you don't waste mine - I won't waste your's.

Let me know if you would like to meet. I am in the Oakland / Alameda / San Leandro area.

Probably more fun than getting one's face bashed in. :p
 
I like to fight as much as I can. Only through experience can I attain a better understanding. When I practice alone I stand in front of a mirror and go through the basics and forms correctly. When I pracice with a partner we just stick (no pun intended, he he he) to a certain area and have at it.

This was especially important to me when I started sparring. I didn't have to focus so much on what I was doing but rather focus on what my opponent was doing. And so far I'm progressively learning quite well.

I even apply this method to playing my bass. I concentrate on the basics at home and when I get with the band we practice playing on time and together. After a few while we're jammin out.
 
to assess your technique vs. another. Lest, the failure of your technique vs. anothers be more due to a failing of the individual than the technique he is practicing. The best technique, I assume, is easily countered or defeated when it is poorly executed. So, one doesn't beat up strawmen, I assume the caveat is that you test your technique against a practioner of equivalent experience and skill.

Kref
 
It is not the style that makes the fighter... it is the fighter that makes the style. That axiom will always stay true.
 
Kuntawman:

With all respect, in what way is your attitude toward other martial artists of any consequence or benefit to anyone but yourself?

I try to treat everyone with respect, if not friendship, even the ones I can beat up.

If somebody wants to practice a martial art without fighting, it is nothing to me. If I acheive something through my training, it is of no significance to anyone but me. We don't fight with our hands to protect our families any more. If anyone tries to hurt me or a member of my family, I don't need to know how to fight, only how to kill.

Any time it is not about survival, it is just a game, a hobby.

No calluses can stop a .45.
 
Now I know what that guy from Bowling for Columbine was talking about. It is all about a culture of fear. Why can't we all get along and just be friends? :p

Anyways, I was a fighter for many years, too. Got tired of fighting and seeing too many of my contemporaries die young or suddenly.

It's funny - I noticed that a lot of people in FMA and SouthEast Asian MA seem to die younger overall. Ted Lucay Lucay, Edgar Sulite, Remy Presas, Mike Inay, etc... They just don't seem as long lived for some reason. Don't know if this correlates to other arts.

It's no wonder FMA almost died. Too many people fighting duels or maybe it was the intensity and stress of the lifestyle.

I agree that unless the gunfighter is at close range, to be intercepted either empty hand or knife, they usually will win. Take the best FMA'er and usually they can be put down by somebody, with no combative experience, using a firearm.

The whole gun versus non-gun martial arts usually ended up with guns winning. Happened in the Phillipines with the Moros. Happened in China with the Boxers. Happened in India with the uprisings there, too. Even the Japanese knew that with the introduction of the musket and gunpowder, it rendered sowrd arts literally obsolete overnite.

Just my 2 cents. :footinmou
 
I think some of you have either missed the point or have deviated from the topic. Many of you neglect to realize that the perception and views of training and of other FMA styles may stem from past experiences or personal insight as a Filipino.

Martial Arts for many, IS a lifestyle and far from just sport or hobby. Many back home still use & teach these arts for "survival". So, in essence they do benefit through these means of self-improvement. As long as it's conducted without animosity and not for ego, this approach seems much more reasonable than citizens carrying guns & knives.

If there is any correlation to be made, it is between "the intensity and stress of the lifestyle" that are prevalent in the U.S., Philippines and all over for that matter.

BTW...contrary to early accounts of FMA in the Philippines, it has and will always be around.

John
 
John J has a good point. Maybe those arts have to adapt to a modern environment where former professional 'samurai' end up being 'ronin'. There are a lot of people that have not comprimised themselves and contracted out their services consulting in personal security. Others end up being bouncers / coolers, soldiers of fortune, or being in 'action careers' like bounty hunting and the like. There is no need to comprimise the arts by comprimising oneself. There is the ability to transition over. Unfortunately, not many people have seen action and been in the real deal. They claim to teach from a colorful background, yada, yada, yada. This leads to a lot of mis-information. Some people will challenge them. Most people will not. I think a more potent weapon is to educate the public rather than shut people down through confrontation. If the conflicts that arise are over territory and money, I can think of easier, better and more lucrative ways to gain that than carrying and flaunting my olisi around. Besides, the legal ramifications aren't worth the challenges and duels. If one wants to prove one's rep - go enter NHB or a Dog Brothers gathering. At least it is in a controlled environment where it is (somewhat) legally overseen. Just my 2 cents. :footinmou
 
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