I don't feel cheated, exactly...

t1mpani

t1mpani

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Joined
Jun 6, 2002
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5,477
...just a tad frustrated. This evening as I was passing through a local sporting goods store, I noticed they had a row of Benchmade Rants for sale. Remarkable only in that they're a step-up from the cutlery usually carried by said store, I picked one of the boxes up and was looking it over, and found N690 Stainless Steel listed among the features on the package. Having seen this particular steel crop up more and more in the knife market recently, and having heard many generally favorable--but slightly contradicting--things about it, I thought, "Well hell, it's not too much money and it's a practical utility design from a company I'm familiar with." And so, I picked it up and took it home.

When I got the package open, though, and got to see the side of the knife that was not visible through the plastic, I see 440C stamped on the blade. Now don't get me wrong--I have absolutely nothing against 440C steel; coming from Benchmade I'm sure it has been heat treated correctly and will hold an edge well in the intended scope of uses for a knife of this type. The point is, I have LOTS of knives of this size/scope of use that will hold an edge very well (many significantly better than 440C) so the need of a new knife was not the purpose of the purchase. I have a couple of 440C, ATS-34 and AUS-10 blades with similarly thin geometry that I was planning on doing a little informal cutting comparisons with the N690--basically, I wanted to be able to form my own opinions on it before putting more money into a more expensive knife that used it. Now that the package is open, I can't return it to the store for a refund--though I can get store credit. I don't shop there very much, but I could doubtless find something.

After a bit of looking here I have discovered that the Rants were indeed N690 in their original release and later became 440C, and I'm not implying any attempt was made on Benchmade's part to "hide" this fact, but I do feel that the descriptions on a factory package should genuinely represent what is inside--I can't believe it would be cost prohibitive to change the printing on their packaging to say "440C".

Oh well, maybe it'll become a glove-compartment resident. Like I said, it wasn't very expensive so I won't be worried about it getting scuffed up or stolen, and it does have a good edge geometry and should cut well.

Ah well, life is full of surprises--lots of them far nastier than this one. :D

Warren
 
A similar thing happened to me. I bought a pika online because the website listed the blade steel as N690 and i wanted to try it out, but when it arrived it was stamped 440C. My reaction was the same. I don't dislike 440C, but i bought the knife to try N690. I blamed the website i purchased it from, but if Benchmade is mislabeling their boxes they might be misinforming distributors too.
 
I understand your disappointment. Have you tried complaining on the Benchmade website forum or complaing to their customer service? I don't think they will be able to do anything to help you. But you should explain to them your situation. They need to know that when they save a few bucks by not correctly labeling the boxes, people notice and take exception to it.

You bought the knife to try the steel. They didn't bother to fix the boxes. They saved a few pennies, but created a negative image of Benchmade in you (and others). Please rub their noses in it.
 
In my opinion, it sounds like Benchmade was having issues contracting out. It sounds to me like they had intended to use Fox Cutlery (Italy), one of the only OEM manufacturers I know of that uses N690 (look at the Spyderco Volpe, the Ontario Retributions, Extrema Ratio, and some of TOPs' newer folders), and made their ad copy accordingly, but then decided at the last minute to contract out with an OEM manufacturer out of Taiwan or China instead, and thus the reason for the 440C (which I think is more likely something akin to AUS8 or Spyderco/Byrd's steel, as Benchmade listed 440C as having .75 carbon in their 2006 catalog's steel chart, and anyone who knows 440C knows that it is supposed to have a lot more carbon than that).

My $0.02,
3G
 
I have sent a note to Benchmade's customer service address. I don't believe, either, that anything will really come of it, but I'll be interested in hearing their take. I tried joining their forum but the signup kept having issues--where I created a user ID and then tried to log in with it, only to be told no such ID existed, but when I tried to go back and start over from the beginning, was told I couldn't create that username because it was already in use, so I gave up. I will freely admit, btw, that this difficulty has about 90% chance of arising from my own error rather than something on their website. :D

I think you're probably right on the money, 3G. It will be interesting to hear their response. Like I said, I don't think I ended up with a bad knife out of the bargain, just not what I thought I was buying.
 
t1mpani said:
Like I said, I don't think I ended up with a bad knife out of the bargain, just not what I thought I was buying.
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Yeah, I hear you. I noticed the same thing a couple of years ago when the Pika's first came out. BM had listed them as having N690 blades, but when I looked at a couple in the store, they had 440C blades. In my opinion, Benchmade found out they couldn't make a good profit off of the Italian (N690) versions of those knives, so they went further east. If you're dying to try out an N690 blade, give the Spyderco Volpe or the Ontario/Hossom Retributions a look. I don't think you'll be disappointed.

Regards,
3G
 
FWIW, BladeHQ says: "Manufactured in Taiwan. Early production runs utilized N690 blade steel (these are the ones we currently have in stock). 440C is used thereafter."
They are selling them for $42.00. Their phone number is 801-768-2303. If they still have the N690 version in stock, that's a good price.
 
Return it for cash. Don't take that "store credit" mumbo jumbo. You bought a knife labeled as N690 and something else was in the package. You were able to ascertain this only after opening the package. You therefore are rejecting acceptance of the knife. You're not returning it - you're just rejecting it. No sale has been completed. You haven't bought the knife and you just need your money back. If you opened up the box and found that it contained a fresh turd instead of the advertised knife, should you be required to take store credit?
 
I have a drop point rant thats blade marked N690 with nothing said on the box as to steel type and its made in Taiwan.
 
brewthunda said:
Return it for cash. Don't take that "store credit" mumbo jumbo. You bought a knife labeled as N690 and something else was in the package. You were able to ascertain this only after opening the package. You therefore are rejecting acceptance of the knife. You're not returning it - you're just rejecting it. No sale has been completed. You haven't bought the knife and you just need your money back. If you opened up the box and found that it contained a fresh turd instead of the advertised knife, should you be required to take store credit?
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Ditto. And if the store chooses to lose a customer just give them the knife and go do a chargeback on your CC.(Which you hopefully used to purchase it in the first place.)

Observation, I wonder why no one is freaking out because of the mislabled boxes when Tim Britton swapped out materials on his kit knives and the SHTF? Same situation but Tim handled it completely wrong which may have partially led to the blowup on him. Just an observation....


oil
 
brewthunda makes a good point. What was inside the package was not what was listed on the outside. I'd demand my money back. If the store gave me any grief about it, it'd mean a complaint to whatever state agency handles such things in your state. And the BBB. And GB&U here.

As far as Benchmade's part in this: If the box says one thing and the material's another: They're hiding it.

I'm beginning to actively dislike Benchmade, I think.
 
theocguy85 said:
FWIW, BladeHQ says: "Manufactured in Taiwan. Early production runs utilized N690 blade steel (these are the ones we currently have in stock). 440C is used thereafter."
They are selling them for $42.00. Their phone number is 801-768-2303. If they still have the N690 version in stock, that's a good price.
Click to expand...

Bought a rant bowie from Blade HQ a couple of months ago.It was 440c.

ak
 
the boxes where likely printed up separately, the question then became do we junk all many thousands of boxes? (at thousands of dollars if not ten thousands of dollars.)

The answer was probably not worth it for the very few customers that noticed and complained.

Is 440c really that different?
 
i think the one that he bought was in a clamshell pack. mine i ordered (about40 dollars) and it came in a red box with no steel type marked. most people buying a 40 dollar knife wouldn't care about the steel. so IMO benchmade wasn't worried about it. N690 is hardly a great sought after blade material.
 
EDCeeker said:
As far as Benchmade's part in this: If the box says one thing and the material's another: They're hiding it.
Click to expand...

I don't see how they're hiding it if it's marked on the blade. If this were an in store purchase, it would have been noticed immediately by a customer who cared what steel was used, or by an observant employee (rare creature). Now if they switched and didn't mark the blades, different story.
 
this is from benchmade's site- N690- An Austrian made stainless steel, which is comparable to 440C in performance and value. Keen edge qualities with excellent corrosion resistance
 
N690- An Austrian made stainless steel, which is comparable to 440C in performance and value
Click to expand...
So perhaps from Benchmade's viewpoint, they didn't change the materials, they only switched sources?

Still, I can understand the disappointment. Benchmade could have easily added stickers to their boxes with the corrected product description.

-Bob
 
Bob W got it right. Easily remedied with a sticker that might have cost less than a penny. Add in a few more cents (per box) to have a factory worker stick one on as they come down the line.
 
maybe benchmade figured they would replace the few knives that people complained about rather than spend anything saying its basically the same steel as N690 but now 440C. who knows I've bought a lot of brand new knives I could have gripped about. some of the more high dollar ones have had blade scratches I've had to polish out with a dremel tool and metal polish. I could have sent them back to the factory but if they let them go out like that in the first place I'd just as soon fix it myself if I can. seems a lot of the cheaper priced ones are finished better than ones costing 3 or 4 times as much. if he wants to bother with sending it back to benchmade with the reason he's returning it they'd more than likely send him a N690 one.
 
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