I don't understand the round hole trademark

I think if Spyderco loses in court(just say) then there will be huge reprocussions of this. Think worst case scenario...clones. What will happen to ANY form,function design? Cheap knock off's with the Axis Lock, Wave, Hole, Butterfly mark, Spyder, Bullet, whatever. Look at the big picture above BM vs. Spyderco. We all hate clones, countless people have written about what feature has been stolen next. There is a lot more than a court case here. If it is ok for BM to use the Hole then what next? Think about it, we as knife collectors, users, admirers have to look out for what is best. Yes the hole is functional but it is Spyderco. As for the assited opener...I am sure they do not work all the same. Onions I would assume(correct me if I am wrong) do not operate the same as Camillus/CUDA Robo assited. Just like round hole versus oval hole. Every campany has there thing. Spyderco's has been trademarked why can't it be left alone. And where has BM been through all this. Sal has posted here, I assume BM know of these threads. Could it just be talk for their new folder that say comes out with a thumb stud or disc? But with all this hype BAM sales through the roof???
 
all speculation at this point , though I do know Neil to be an honorable man and his ethics need not be questioned. I also doubt Benchmade would use the holes if they thought it was an infringement.

Mr. Brownshoe is way outta line on that one :footinmou , to which I think he owes Neil an apology.

ok Benchmade should just say the folder has 3 wholes ....instead of holes....
 
It's a prototype design and you guys are already talking repurcussions of a court case?! Give it a rest for crying out loud, it's Sal's trademark! He's made his thoughts known on the issue and what we think or don't think isn't going to change what eventually happens, IF ANYTHING. End rant.
 
Originally posted by CKE2
Cheap knock off's with the Axis Lock, Wave, Hole, Butterfly mark, Spyder, Bullet, whatever.
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The Axis lock is patented. When the patent expires it becomes public domain and due to it's functional nature it should not be able to be trademarked.

Same thing with the Wave.

My understanding of intellectual property law is that the same thing should apply to any functional design element, holes included.

The Butterfly and Spyder are wholly different because they are entirely non-functional.
 
Originally posted by CKE2
I think if Spyderco loses in court(just say) then there will be huge reprocussions of this. Think worst case scenario...clones. What will happen to ANY form,function design? Cheap knock off's with the Axis Lock, Wave, Hole, Butterfly mark, Spyder, Bullet, whatever.
Click to expand...

Mechanisms get patents to prevent 'cloning' for a period of time, after which others may use the design for better or worse-the market determines who stays in business. Someone else may improve on the design and get a patent of their own. Trademarks last as long as desired, I believe. Knock off artists work without considering the law, they're pumping out stolen ideas as we type.
 
quick double post-I hope this doesn't become some legal affair, I personally would have no problem seeing the 630 with smaller holes shifted slightly forward to make room for a stud. I just don't understand how the hole got trademarked, that's all.
 
I love knives from both company and collect and use them. I would hate for both compay to have at it at each others throat.

But

My take on this is

The mark of the spider is Spyderco.
The mark of the butterfly is Benchmade.

Is Axis lock Benchmade?
Is Framelock Sebenza?

As stated on Benchmade forum, the company regrets having the pic leaked out ( on the other hand this could be a teaser to gauge the reaction of knifeknuts). They are only prototyping the 630. Nothing has been finalized except the size and materials.
 
Brownshoe,

That is the most ridiculous post I have read on BFC this year. What's next, claiming Neil isn't ethical because his knife has handles?

Give it a rest, will ya
 
Holes in blades are nothing new. Ken Onion has 3 holes in his blades by Kershaw. The holes in this knife are not used in opening.

Opening a knife by a round hole was invented by Glesser. He doesn't want other production makers to use his design. He protected it with patents, now with a trademark. Other people have tried to honor this request, but open the knife in a different manner. Wegner decided to make his own knives, couldn't use the hole, so bastardized it into the "cone." We've got the Benchmade and Boye ovals, etc.

Knowing this, why would someone in our "community" copy Glesser's round opening hole? Why not respect Glesser's wishes and find another way to open the knife.
 
Originally posted by brownshoe
Holes in blades are nothing new. Ken Onion has 3 holes in his blades by Kershaw. The holes in this knife are not used in opening.

Opening a knife by a round hole was invented by Glesser. He doesn't want other production makers to use his design. He protected it with patents, now with a trademark. Other people have tried to honor this request, but open the knife in a different manner. Wegner decided to make his own knives, couldn't use the hole, so bastardized it into the "cone." We've got the Benchmade and Boye ovals, etc.

Knowing this, why would someone in our "community" copy Glesser's round opening hole? Why not respect Glesser's wishes and find another way to open the knife.
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They are not trying to honor a request, they are following the law. This is not a community, it is a market, a free one. The government does not make laws for the respecting of wishes, but the protection of rights. If there is a legal way to use a round opening hole on a knife, then there is no reason not to.
 
Spark; Maybe you should open a "legal" forum for all the armchair lawyers who seem to love to get involved in things that they know nothing about or can do nothing about.
Brownshoe, give your head a shake! Your remarks are poorly chosen and you owe Mr. Blackwood an apology!
 
OK, that's it, I want a totally new folder commissioned.....

Hey, Neil, could you make me a Skirmish that's even larger than it is now (so hey, this gets around your "no more Skirmish orders," right?) -- call it the "Daimyo" -- and make it so that I can use my foot, while standing, to open?

:)

We'll call it a "stirrup opener?"

:)

Allen
aka DumboRAT
 
2 words..... SKIRMISH AUTO !!

solves that whole....errr hole issue....


except the recoil would be like a 44 mag :D
 
Ill post here what I posted in the Spyderco Forum...I still think it applies.


Just wandering if anyone has heard BM, or Mr. Blackwoods side? IMHO its a little to early to put this in the court of public opinion. The knife hasnt been released yet, only a picture of a proto has been made public and I could be wrong, but I dont think BM made it so...
Only time will tell the outcome. It is an impressive looking knife..Spyderhole or not. Just my 2 cents....

Merry Christmas
 
Originally posted by the45guy
2 words..... SKIRMISH AUTO !!

solves that whole....errr hole issue....


except the recoil would be like a 44 mag :D
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Thank God the Skirmish is big enough to hold with two hands!!!

The recoil for a one-hand hold would just be too much for a mere mortal being to handle:eek: :eek:

Happy Holidays everyone!!!!!!
 
Originally posted by CKE2
I think if Spyderco loses in court(just say) then there will be huge reprocussions of this. Think worst case scenario...clones. What will happen to ANY form,function design? Cheap knock off's with the Axis Lock, Wave, Hole, Butterfly mark, Spyder, Bullet, whatever.
Click to expand...
Sadly, this has already been happening for years and hardly anything deters the cheap knockoff makers from plying their dishonest trade, let alone the law. :mad: :barf:

I truly hope that Spyderco and Benchmade can come to a peaceful resolution of this matter. Like Sal said, they are competitors, not enemies. As well-respected and honorable companies, they do not need any of us to champion their causes or bash their opponents. Let's all just take it easy and see what they decide before we :footinmou.
 
The fight announcer, Michael Buffer, trademarked his "Let's get ready to rumble" call that he does before each fight he introduces. No one else can go before a microphone and yell those words legally.
 
the45guy,

LOLROF -- Double-taps? No problem. We'll just petition Neil for a D/A OTF.

Man, I thought I had trouble firing my MT Scarab at the beginning (well, not really, we both know that I was raised on the SnG, my thumb callous attests to that, LOL!), can you just imagine a Skirmish Auto D/A OTF ?

That said, I'd actually love one..........

:)

Allen
aka DumboRAT
 
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