I don't want to whip a Dead Horse but...

No offence meant PhilL.
No you may not call me Dick.
You can call me Dirk.
 
And just who the he ll do you people think you are? I love my Franklin Mint collection. elitest now who would that be?
 
Originally posted by Dexter Ewing
The way I see it, there are only two rules etched in stone about the knife collecting hobby:
<li> Have fun
<li> Buy what you like
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Have I mentioned just how much I appreciate your attitutde? :) Your posts are always a positive addition to these forums.

I am always delighted to see a new collaborative production model because it gives me the opportunity to own a design I could not otherwise afford. Customs are generally beyond my means.

Collaborative productions are not the same as customs, but they are often really nice knives. That's what it's all about for me.

--Bob Q
 
I agree with the majority of the post here.

Is a collectible something that means alot to a person? Something they can pass down to their kids, grandkids,etc... or is it just something to make money off of? If you want an investment piece than buy one. That is how I see it.

I think what some people are failing to realize is that Camillus puts out the BEST production knives and Fisk is the BEST custom maker, ever! So how can you go wrong buying one of these GREAT KNIVES!

I look forward to owning one of these.
Steph
 
Dick's comments are appropriate considering the context of the question being posed “Camillus OVB Fisk Bowie: User or Investment Piece”.

I happen to agree with him in that I do not think factory knives make good investments. I will go farther and say that I do not believe knives or collectibles in general are good investments. These type of markets are too small and can be too easily manipulated to be solid long term investments.

I have mixed feelings about "limited edition" collectibles as they are often bought as "investments" and that IMHO is not the best idea. I would continue Dick's thought in that these indeed will be "just factory blades" and if bought in hopes of monetary gain one is likely to be dissapointed in the long term. The fact that a few factory blades (and customs) have appreciated in the past is no assurance that any will do so in the future.

That being said, the collaboration trend has been very beneficial to this hobby. It has helped the factory knife market by introducing many great new designs and allowing them to be produced in quantities that allow a wide range of people to own them. The only factory blade I currently own is a camillus/simonich talonite talon. At the time it was produced there was little chance I could buy a Simonich Cetan as there were so few on the market and the factory blade allowed me to own a neat design. The custom version is nicer but I am quite happy with the talon. It has been a very good "user" knife. Curious enough it cost about the same as one from the custom maker.

As for the new Camillus/Fisk blade it also looks very nice and it does appear that Mr. Fennell and Mr. Fisk have done an outstanding job. However its price will make it one of the most expensive factory fixed blade collaborations ever produced. The high price coupled with "limited edition" factor makes it appear to me to be a blade made for the collectors market.

Don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with that. Its a free market. If anyone wants to buy one and put it in the sock drawer or safe and admire once in a while that's great.

Nothing wrong with using it either BTW. One should enjoy this hobby. :D

I will be curious to see what kind of market there will be for such high end collaborations in the future.
 
There have been a few already. The Case/Tony Bose folders are an example that I can think of. These knives are more expensive than the Camillus/Fisk Bowie and they have sold very well indeed.



Once again edited for poor spelling.
 
I do not think factory knives make good investments
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Tell that to the guys I see scambling every week to find that special Case or Remington knife, or talk to the guys over in the Randall or Busse forums. Then again what if the guy wants to buy a knife to use; or, perhaps they want to test drive the design before comiting to a ten year endovor to get the real deal. Production knives have often gone up far faster than "Custom" knives. Some of those case knives are up on the order of 100,000%.

The reality is that factory knives do go up and that not everyone is looking for a long term financial investment.

n2s
 
Why would I be offended by the mindless nonsense I wrote in W&C or any forum? If I did offend myself I would sit myself down and have a long talk with myself about it.
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[Phil]

W&C is not a place that defines a REAL person. It is a Place to lose one's senses on a temporary basis........;)

Hey Phil, Keep whipping....If it wee not were productions, my VAST knife collection would NOW total three:D :D :D .....Ira
 
Gotta agree with the quote by Dexter above all.

And I'll agree with PhilL that "Franklin Mint" is a shot below the belt. Ouch. Judging by Camillus's capacity to produce some seriously nice stuff combined with Mr. Fisk's legendary status, I have NO doubt this will be one kickass knife. Saying it's not an investment piece- in one's own opinion- hey that's cool if you think that, but to compare it to anything by Franklin Mint? That is just hard to swallow if for no other reason than the vast difference in quality. Quality relates to value, and in that regard, the Fisk Bowie will smoke all comers from "The Mint" when it comes time to sell.

I am totally into Spyderco's collaborations, and to a lesser extent, those of other companies as well. It's sort of become the focus of my collection, although I do have a few really nice custom pieces too. Do I think they're a good investment? Not especially, but I sure do enjoy them anyways. It's- wait- what was that word again? Oh yeah, "fun".

Investment piece or otherwise, who cares? If you like it buy it! What's the point of arguing about it anyway? It's not like Camillus is guaranteeing any sort of return on the purchase price!

Interesting thread though- and for reasons other than the question at hand. How many times have newbies been shunned for expressing their enthusiasm for their factory pieces only to be told they don't know jack about knives until they buy customs? Couple of guys start discussing how the XYZ Co. Super Secret Recon Ninja Seal 2000 rules and a forum elder takes it upon himself to blast them for being so naive.

Two way street, I guess.

Firebat
 
For me, these Collaborations are the greatest thing to happen in the knife world in a long time! We get the latest designs of the designers, with the low cost and great customer service of the manufacturers. I have some handmades, and I love them, but my collaborations are just as dear to me. Take it from a RETIRED (as of friday 11/30/01!) LEO!:D :D
 
I don't necessarily agree with everything Dick said or the way he said them.

However, He did bring up at least one good point. Collaborations are not necessarily collectable because they are collaborations.

The Fisk Bowie and some other Collaborations seem to be designed to be collectable. Others like the EDC or Talon seem to be designed to make excellent Custom Designs available as Using Knives.

I personally believe that Camillus has esta blished itself as one of the finest Production Companies for Collaborations because of their fanatical dedication to faithfulness to the Custom Design.

However, Even Camillus cannot completely replicate the feel of a fine custom.
 
Caught that great little blip alaChoctaw;) ;) ;) Congrats on the milestone........There IS life after Police work!!!!!!!Good luck, enjoy the once a month, you have PAID YOUR DUES!!!!!!!:D wolf
Knife content: Corrabs have allowed me to own knife with a MAKER'S NAMES ON THEM.......
 
Have to say I agree that factory knives are not collectible in general. Every now and then some one will say, "Should I use my 1 of a 1000 first production run or put it in the vault?"

I have to laugh to myself.

The Camillus Fisk bowie is going to be a fantastic knife, and a fantastic value, but it won't appreciate because there are going to be too many of them, they are factory produced, and they will be collectible only relative to hand made Fisk knives, which is to say, if some one is a collector looking for a Fisk bowie, they will collect a geniune Fisk bowie.

Which is not to say that you can not "collect" the Camillus/Fisk bowie, put it in a drawer to preserve its new appearance and never use it, but it will not be "collectible" meaning that it will appreciate in value due to a high demand versus the supply. In my humble opinion.
 
.02 cents worth of perspective:

No one can truly predict what will become "collectible" (read valuable) item. Events have a way of turning a sow's ear into a silk purse.

One example:

About 5 months ago, A G Russell had a some Spyderco "Q" knives with the American Flag design on cut into the blade. He had the things for sale for less than $30 - essentially giving them away. I looked at those a few times and said "well, I really would rather have the jolly rodger version instead" so I didn't purchase them.

Then the terrorist attacks occured on 9/11 and a few days later, the "Q" Flag Spydercos start popping up and the bloody things are going for over $150. Even now on Ebay, they are selling regularly for well over $100. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

I realize that this is an exceptional example, but anomalies will always occur. There just is no way to predict these things.
 
Phil,I have been making knives about 20 years,when I saw the post on the Fisk knife,I immediately liked it,is it an "investment"hell if I know,I just like it and want one.I hope you will enjoy yours. ;)
 
Hmm. Imagine for a moment that you had a Case 3 5/8" canoe knife in stag, and a Remington 4 1/2" cocobolo bullet trapper in a box, and thought that they would make fine users. Then you beat them up over a few years. Looking on eBay one day, you see that if you had kept both in that box, you'd have been able to dump them both for around 5 grand. Then you'd think to yourself...

"Gee whiz, if only I knew then what I know now."

Well, we kinda do know now what the market does. Is this Camillus piece gonna be collectible in the years to come? I dunno. You could look at it as the first piece in a renewed OVB line from Camillus, designed by a legend in the field, and made in limited enough numbers and think that maybe someday they might be highly desired pieces.

Me, I'm gonna happily pound away at mine for years to come. One day I might see the model going for thousands of dollars and think to myself...

"Gee whiz, I DID know then what I do now."

But I'm sure the memories of how my children and I hacked our way into adventure with one of the finest pieces I ever owned will more than put my mind at ease.

Buy one. Do whatever you want with it, but for goodness sake ENJOY IT!
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that Jerry Fisk designed a knife to be used. I'm getting one even though I don't know what use I can put it through. I don't know who started the idea that a collectable only has to be collected with the hope of going up in value, or that this knife is some kind of investment? I know I didn't.

My hope with this thread is to point out is that just because someone can afford Loveless's or Fisk's doesn't mean he has any credibility as a knife lover. Love of knives has nothing to do with how much you spend or the return on investment. If he had said, "Buy the Camillus/Fisk Bowie and enjoy it, but save and get yourself a custom Fisk if you can." I would have agreed with him, but he didn't. He instead turned up his nose at the people that are looking forward to this knife and said, "It isn't good enough". He may be collecting for 30 years, but he has no touch with reality or true knifenuts. To me he's just a snob. So, I may not know Dick, but Dick don't know Jack. :p

Edited for typo.
Now watch some wiseguy try to start trouble. :p
 
Originally posted by PhilL
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that Jerrk Fisk designed a knife to be used.
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Phil Phil Phil....you are really losing it my friend. First you get PO'd about budrichard's post and now, you are calling one of the best knifemakers around, ABS Master Smith, AND designated National Living Treasure names too?? :p :D :p :D Man, no one is safe from your wrath eh? :)
 
PC/BM bali's are the exception to every rule, but illustrate how a production knife without a maker's name on them at all are super-collectible...

BM45 Bali, payed $79.00 at Cutlery Shoppe in '95. Still NIB, now selling at $250.00.

BM30 Bali, payed full, ugly retail of $69.99 in '97. Still NIB, now selling at $150-175.00.

The list goes on and on...

In general, I'd say that production knives are less collectible than customs. But there are exceptions out there that more than turn the table on that concept.

Professor.
 
Actually, production knives are incredibly collectable. They may not make a very sound investment, but it is a lot of fun just to collect a certain style or manufaturer or type of knife. For the most part collecting is not about seeing a big return on your investment because a true collector is not going to sell that item even if it does go way up in price. For most people, collecting is done for the fun of it. It is a tremendously rewarding pastime. You get to have a great time and meet others with the same interest that you have. If what you have collected goes up in value, great. If not, it really doesn't matter.
 
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