I get amazed at how many older knives are still in dealers hands...

jc57 said:
An anecdote from my lone surviving Case Platinum dealer nearby.

He does have tons of very interesting old knives still on sale, lots from 2008 and before. What he told me is that when the economy tanked in 2008, his Case pocket knife business died, and has never recovered. Apparently the core market for Case collectors is older, "traditional" people, blue collar workers or small business men (yes, mainly men) who had done well in their lives and had some disposable income, some retired or nearing retirement. Those were the people hardest hit by the recession, so they probably no longer had the income to buy pretty knives for display.

He said they used to get multiple mint sets each year and they would have most of them sold before they came in. Now he can't get rid of the ones he has from then, and doesn't buy new ones.

So it's not just the "working man doesn't carry knives" issue. It's that a lot of older Americans were forced into early retirement or lost half their net worth and have never recovered.
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Now this is why I was wondering why no Green People were commenting here. The Market and the Marketplace has changed! Sittin around the pot-belly stove in the Old General Store, whittlin and spittin is long gone. Entrepenuers have to SEEK OUT new ways to market product. IMHO, for a modern knife dealer, a Brick and Mortar is the kiss of death. All y'all collectors and and such are tellin it from your point of view. And I understand that. But nowadays, a knife dealer has to be a Businessman. We can't compete with Wally World in any way shape or form. BUT we can offer a much wider selection, personalized customer experience and a sales staff with specific product knowledge. The Internet allows us to reach out to collectors and users around the world.
As for the Economy "tanking in 2008", that's as may be. I started my business in 2007. Sellin Rough Riders at the Flea Markets for 10 bucks each. In 2012 I had my own Website, set-up at at least 25 Gun and Knife Shows (that's one every other weekend right thru the year) and sold over 50 thousand bucks worth of knives. My point is, this being the United States of America, hard work and creativeness can still pay off. With a good product that you believe in, a positive attitude and a little luck.
And those knives that don't sell right away? They don't eat anything, they won't rot or get moldy. And in 5 or 10 years, they'll be even more collectible as "Early Releases".
 
scrteened porch said:
But how do you get into the closed gas station?
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You stop your car, truck, bicycle, motorcycle, roller skates, or whatever else you might be traveling on and look to see if there is a contact number on the door or maybe a window. Look around to see if there's a house nearby or next door where the owner may live or where they may tell you how to contact the owner. I've done it many a time and sometimes the effort pays off.
 
Bob (rma100) I'm so happy to see your input in this thread. Your last post rings so many truths about running (and surviving) a small niche business in these times. You need to identify your customers and be able to successfully target them. Being helpful on a forum like this has to play a big part in that.

I for one welcome your input as I sometimes wonder how niche businesses survive and thrive. And while the days of sitting around the stove at the feed store are long gone, I sure miss that. But times are constantly changing I guess and to survive you must change along with them or be left behind.

Getting back on topic, I like to look at vendor's sites that have some of the older stuff still NIB. Now I know a little more of the why.
 
Keep something in mind when considering inventory of old stock when it comes to knives, of all the other retail items you compared knives to, knives require the least amount of space to store, I could pack a fortune in knives in a closet, how much room is needed compared to a car or even clothes.

Once you've invested the capital in the knives unless they're your only source of revenue it cost nothing our I should say near nothing to keep them till you can recoup most of your initial investment.

If you have the time to wait you'll eventually get your money back.
 
Right you are about brick and mortar stores, Bob. I've tried to convince the Case dealer I mentioned to sell his remaining stock on line. He's one of those little old-school non-chain hardware stores, so I guess it's not that big of a deal to him, or too much trouble to try to figure it out. Guess he's making enough off nuts and bolts.

Oh, and Forums like this are the new sittin around the pot-belly stove, whittlin' and spittin'. And when we feel like moseying over to the counter, we have your counter, and Mike's, and Barry's, and Derrick's counters to stroll over to and browse around. The old General Store is still there, it's just much bigger and made out of technology.
 
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I agree Bob, well said:thumbup:

rma100 said:
Now this is why I was wondering why no Green People were commenting here. The Market and the Marketplace has changed! Sittin around the pot-belly stove in the Old General Store, whittlin and spittin is long gone. Entrepenuers have to SEEK OUT new ways to market product. IMHO, for a modern knife dealer, a Brick and Mortar is the kiss of death. All y'all collectors and and such are tellin it from your point of view. And I understand that. But nowadays, a knife dealer has to be a Businessman. We can't compete with Wally World in any way shape or form. BUT we can offer a much wider selection, personalized customer experience and a sales staff with specific product knowledge. The Internet allows us to reach out to collectors and users around the world.
As for the Economy "tanking in 2008", that's as may be. I started my business in 2007. Sellin Rough Riders at the Flea Markets for 10 bucks each. In 2012 I had my own Website, set-up at at least 25 Gun and Knife Shows (that's one every other weekend right thru the year) and sold over 50 thousand bucks worth of knives. My point is, this being the United States of America, hard work and creativeness can still pay off. With a good product that you believe in, a positive attitude and a little luck.
And those knives that don't sell right away? They don't eat anything, they won't rot or get moldy. And in 5 or 10 years, they'll be even more collectible as "Early Releases".
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jc57 said:
Oh, and Forums like this are the new sittin around the pot-belly stove, whittlin' and spittin'. And when we feel like moseying over to the counter, we have your counter, and Mike's, and Barry's, and Derrick's counters to stroll over to and browse around. The old General Store is still there, it's just much bigger and made out of technology.
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True that - good way of puttin' it!
 
I appreciate all the insight and ideas given on this subject. Actually, after reading them all, I can really see the many factors that has caused the decline of traditional pocket knife sales... My main two guesses would have been simply the chinese imports and modern designs... but, I can see it goes much deeper than that. Again, thanks for all your input, guys :-)
 
I'm sure it's a regional market as well, in rural areas such as here, traditional pocket knives are still king, even in younger peoples pockets, what few of them carry knives that is. Really I think we're experiencing a resurgence in interest in all things old school. I've got a friend who's what I would call a hipster (odd behavior for this part of the world), and he listens to vinyl, I wear an automatic watch, beards are mainstream, and it seems I also hear of more people shaving with straight razors, than in years past. I mean it's hard to imagine traditional cutlery fitting into all of this, but aesthetics play a larger, more important role in peoples lives in this day and age it seems. I guess life is becoming too easy, just my observations of younger people in my age group. My "hipster" friend carries an Opinel BTW. I'm coming to traditional cutlery, not only because of the aesthetics, but because, unlike many modern knives, that were meant to be displayed, rather than used, traditional cutlery sports perfected blade profiles IMHO.
 
We were putting rollout plastic on table tops for a funeral luncheon yesterday
and while everyone was trying to figure out how to trim them, my pocket
knife came out and sliced like a scalpel--then back to my pocket.

I have people ask me all the time to borrow my pen that I nearly always carry.

A 3 lumen mini-keyring Streamlight gets used a lot.

But then again, I'm older and I don't wear sunglasses on the back of my head at night
or sit a table with 6 people on their cell phones.

I guess I have just learned a different way of life.
(rant complete, time for nap)
 
silenthunterstudios said:
Robert, have you sat down with him and used the knife to whittle, or taken him fishing etc and used the knife then? Or just stopped by at a family function and asked if he had the knife? I never spent the time I should have with my little brother. Trying to rectify that now, same as my father is trying to rectify that with both of us.
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Sadly, yes I have. He enjoyed a couple of woodworking projects we did together and I made sure he saw how much I used my folders.

We are outdoors a lot when I am around him and we have a blast, but he never brings either of his knives. And I quit asking him when I see him at family gatherings if he has his knife; he never does. He always says, "I didn't know I needed it". A confounding answer to someone that always needs his knife.

He has something like a Swiss Army Forester that was Boy Scout approved for carry on camp outs and BSA activities. Although it is a great tool that is no doubt quite handy, it is a nasty aberration of a knife to me. I bought him a neat Rough Rider Dogbone pattern so he could at least see bone, nickel silver, and have a real knife. He loves it, shows it to his friends, but then keeps it tucked away somewhere in his room. He never carries it. I still have hope, but it is fading. Soon he will be at the cars/girls/buddies stage, too.

As far as the old knives in dealers hands goes, there are only one or two that I know of that have old stock. At the local gun show, I see the same exact knifes in the same cases hauled out month after month by a couple of vendors. They sell other knives, but not those. The largest holder of old stock I know is a local gun store, and they treat every older knife as a priceless antique. The owner of that store will no doubt be happy to carry them to his grave.

But along what Ed said, I have a friend of mine that is frequently called away out of town to service his accounts. He passes through small towns, and he stops at every small hardware store or sporting goods store. On a very rare occasion he will find an old knife. About a year ago he was in a small town and saw an old CASE display in an old hardware store. The display was empty, but he got to chatting with the owner (an older fella) a bit about CASE knives. The owner told him he had to buy too many at once to make it worth his while, so he just decided to sell out his stock and let it go. He thought there might be a knife or two left in the storage part of the case and indeed, there was. He sold my buddy a brand new CASE peanut with orange scales for the price marked on the box, $12. He was smitten with the peanut and didn't even look at the other knives. He hasn't gone back through there, and at about 70 miles from here, in my gas guzzling truck it isn't worth the trip to go see.

Robert
 
No doubt, the quality slipjoint market is a niche. There are not 1 in 200 people that have any interest in knives and probably a quarter that buy more than 1 every couple months. Storefronts have way too much overhead that eats into profit, and they greatly increase the time required to keep the business profitable.

As far as old stock, I have a little different twist on that. Since the beginning I have understood the benefit of being able to spot the rare exceptional values and take advantage of them. A great deal with actual volume may show up once or twice a year; and when I find them I jump on them. For example, I have bought 200-500 of the same knife several times just because of the exceptional value. Then, even though I can offer an exceptional value, those knives still don't just move in a couple weeks. If you have 500 of the same knife and sell a couple a week, it takes time to move off the shelves. And as Bob says, they are not eating anything.

In today's distribution channel, real values are few and far between. For example, Case has been slowly raising prices for some time now. And they use new patterns to really jump pricing since they don't have to justify what it cost the last time they released it. So I keep my eye out for true values in the Case new release knives.

It doesn't matter what the knife is, there are price levels that set the wheels in motion. A knife that you can't keep in stock at $50, will last quite a bit longer at $60, and gather dust at $65. And that is without any competition on that knife. Setting prices on one-off and older knives is many times complex. But if you notice a lack of interest, the price can be adjusted after a few months and that will drop it into somebody's price range. We collectors are savvy enough to know that even if we find a knife we like on one website, we need to check the prices on all the others before buying. There is some loyalty, but it rarely overrides a big difference in pricing. I go to gun shows just to find what I want to go home and get on the web for a significantly lower price.

Finally, dealers have to set a price that will feed their family as well as offer a great value to the buyer. Even when selling at higher volumes, there are knives that can't be profitable. If you can't compete with, and hopefully beat, the other guy - I don't see the sense in dealing with it. Personally I am not interested in any knife that I can't bring to my customers at a better value than the competition. But many times the dealers are just as sentimental as the customer. We get these knives in, rub'em, and many times get attached. So, some of the knives that seem like they sit on the shelves for years, are those that we really like too much to sale ;>
 
I was hoping you would chime in rma100. It is good to hear from someone who deals with this on a firsthand basis. jc57's point about the economy changing carrying habits was one I was curious about. I know the the financial crisis changed a lot of markets but I was far from sure how it affected ~this~ market.

Change can affect folks in different ways and it makes it tough to generalize. But I can tell you this: If you are retired or in a comfortably secure job you have no idea how dicey things are in this job market/economy. Especially for the young'ens fresh out of HS/college. What is going on hasn't been seen since the great depression. If then. We just don't see the same outcomes because of the social safety net.

What has this got to do with traditional pocket knives? Well if you interact with a lot of the young'ens (and I do because of our intern program and the fact that I am young enough to be like an uncle to these kids) you will recognize a distinct revolt against what was considered the norm only a decade ago. There is a streak of distrust of what they consider to be commercialism. And conspicuous consumption. They seem to have accepted lower expectations as a fait accompli. I have been very surprised at how they are interested in things that have some kind of permanence or things that are old but trusted and have emotional attachment. Sound familiar?

Granted, 95% of them have cell phones instead of pocket knives. And they are just as prone to advertisement as any of us.... but there is a pushback there as well. Many of them seem to yearn for simpler times and more meaningful work.

So my opinion isn't that it is only the traditional knife market that is in trouble. I believe ~any~ market that depends on continual turnover and upgrade without being ~necessary~ to their social or work life is dangling on a frayed rope. And that most certainly includes one where an arguable steel upgrade or handle material or styling fetish is all that separates the current knife you own that cost $200 from the new model that costs $225.

Just one man's opinion and it is more than possible that I am out in left field on this one.

Will
 
A lot of thoughtful posts here. I am going to ask that we keep the discussion on knives and leave the discussion of economics and politics to other sub forums. I know it's hard to do, but please try.
 
Wow... you guys all keep contributing info that makes us all soo much more savy on this subject (specifically the traditional pocket knife subject). I really do love sharing my thoughts and hearing all of your's. Thank you all for sharing those thoughts and your knowledge :-)
 
The Pearl Handled Select Barlow I just picked up was from 2008 or so I believe. Kinda makes me smile that the knife (1 of 500) sat in the glass display case for 5 years waiting on me to buy it at the small hardware store.

I imagine even as a larger seller, you buy enough to keep your cabinet full. So if you have a small display that holds 30 knives, and you are selling 5 knives a month. You are only gonna put in orders for 4 or 5 a month to replace that inventory. If you get too many and you cant display it, you end up jut shoving it under in the back-stock locker and it can get 'lost' for a while till a nosy customer starts poking around.

Either way, small inventory shifts of 4 or 5 a month and stores with a single small display. It doesn't surprise me that with Case's sales model dealers have inventory that can stick around several years.

That is kinda the beauty of it all, going into a shop and looking through 3 or 4 years of releases and picking the one that suits you.

That and the internet is a piss poor place to buy a traditional knife imo. You cannot feel how the knife locks up, or the fit and finish of the knife through a website. Thats fine for a Sypderco or a Leatherman, but not for a Case.
 
I will say that the 'EDC' craze is helping sales of Case knives as a brand.

I have seen two different larger 'mens' websites/blogs building up and mentioning Case as a brand recently. In fact, the two together are what brought me here and started my own Case journey once they reminded me of my grandfather and something my pocket was lacking.

Here are the two:

http://everyday-carry.com/
http://www.artofmanliness.com/
 
Merovingian said:
I will say that the 'EDC' craze is helping sales of Case knives as a brand.

I have seen two different larger 'mens' websites/blogs building up and mentioning Case as a brand recently. In fact, the two together are what brought me here and started my own Case journey once they reminded me of my grandfather and something my pocket was lacking.

Here are the two:

http://everyday-carry.com/
http://www.artofmanliness.com/
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Lol, hey I remember when AoM came out with their article on pocket knives. Good stuff. And EDC has some very interesting threads as well though I just visit occasionally and never post.

A lot of folks over there have keychain knives and I really like how some have incorporated them into their pocket kits. Unfortunately for me I cannot stand having a big lump of metal stuff in my pockets. Heck I don't even like carrying my car keys or cell phone! A nice slender traditional is about the extent of my tolerance.

But I think you are entirely correct, those guys/gals have really stoked the interest of many towards pocket carry tools and knives. Especially the smaller stuff.

Will
 
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