I guess that's another recommendation for plain old Carbon steel !

[pitdog]

I might be going over old ground here but I have only just seen the destruction test of the Chris Reeve Green Beret knife on knifetests.com.
Seeing as how Chris Reeve seems to know his stuff I can only put the poor performance down to the steel CPM S30V stainless !!!
We all know that Noss's tests are a little extreme but as he tests all knives the same it does give us a little insight into how the different steels behave and this one just backed up my previous concerns over Stainless steels being a little brittle.
I guess that's why we never see Blacksmiths banging away with stainless tools. Not rocket science I know but I think Stainless should maybe be confined to smaller blades who's only requirements are ordinary knife tasks such as cutting and slicing, not as beefy survival blades which could be called upon for any manner of ungodly tasks !!!

 

[sketchbag]

Lets not get a head of ourselves, the Strider he tested was also s30v and it proved to be very tough.

 

[pitdog]

Lets not get a head of ourselves, the Strider he tested was also s30v and it proved to be very tough.

I stand corrected, your right that did perform quite well, I had forgotten that.
I guess the problem may lie in his heat-treatment then, what do you think ?

 

[Evolute]

It is notable that other stainless steel knives performed somewhat better than the GB in his tests. Nonetheless, a clear and dramatic pattern emerges in his tests, taken as all of them in comparison. The toughness of the stainless steel blades in his tests does not compare favorably to the toughness of the non-stainless steel blades.

It is interesting to see, to visually get a rough understanding of the quantitative differences in toughness between the tested stainless steels and the tested non-stainless steels. Even having already known that stainless tends to be more brittle, it was an education for me, to see the difference.

 

[Fiddleback]

IMO, stainless blades belong in the kitchen and the operating room.

 

[pitdog]

IMO, stainless blades belong in the kitchen and the operating room.

LOL !!!

Yeah I've always been a little anti-stainless but I guess they do have their uses if you are working around saltwater a lot etc and they should also be fine for skinning knives and such !

I'd just rather see a 30 yr old beat up Carbon steel blade with a nice deep patina !!!! Guess I'm a bit of a traditionalist.

 

[sketchbag]

I stand corrected, your right that did perform quite well, I had forgotten that.
I guess the problem may lie in his heat-treatment then, what do you think ?

I think that it must have been the heat treatment. Noss sent the knife to Chris R. and the verdict is that it was not defective. I wonder how Reeve's heat treat protocol differs from Paul Bo's or Striders...

It is notable that other stainless steel knives performed somewhat better than the GB in his tests. Nonetheless, a clear and dramatic pattern emerges in his tests, taken as all of them in comparison. The toughness of the stainless steel blades in his tests does not compare favorably to the toughness of the non-stainless steel blades.

It is interesting to see, to visually get a rough understanding of the quantitative differences in toughness between the tested stainless steels and the tested non-stainless steels. Even having already known that stainless tends to be more brittle, it was an education for me, to see the difference.

In what aspect are you referring to when you say preformed better than the GB? In edge holding I'd agree, but as far as toughness and resistance to chipping goes the GB was right up there with infi.

As far as stainless vs nonstainless goes, I think there's little debate that the high alloying compromises toughness and strength, but not to the degree that some people think. Some of these stainless knives have proven to be very rugged, exceeding realistic requirements. The Strider (s30v), Fallkniven A1 (vg10), S&W SRK (440c) and Gerber LMF (12c27) were all quite impressive, and IMO more than suitably tough and strong.

 

[pitdog]

I may be wrong but didn't the Fallkniven chip up pretty quickly but survived the remainder of the tests due to being laminated ?

 

[mtnfolk mike]

i much prefer carbon steel over stainless.... especially for a field/woods knife.... :thumbup:

my gene ingram #30 is in s30v, it's wicked sharp, but is also not that easy to resharpen...

 

[UnixDork]

I like the modern stainless steels. But it was never a question to me how they compare to carbon steel for absolute toughness.

 

[UnixDork]

The Strider (s30v), Fallkniven A1 (vg10), S&W SRK (440c) and Gerber LMF (12c27) were all quite impressive, and IMO more than suitably tough and strong.

That's the thing right there. It's the difference between tough enough and absolutely the toughest available. It's a tradeoff like anything else.

 

[jackknife]

IMO, stainless blades belong in the kitchen and the operating room.

A sentiment I can totally agree with.:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

I'm not expert on metalurgy, but I was employed as a machinist for 25 years. You don't see any stainless steel end mills, lathe toolsm or bandsaw blades. Or like pitdog said, blacksmiths banging away with stainless tools.

The high end modern stainless is nice stuff, and does indeed make a nice knife. But I have a gut feeling that if one was to be dropped in some very inhospitable corner of the planet, you want your survival tools to be good old fashioned carbon steel.

I had the good fortune to count among my friends, Bill Moran. In the 30 years I knew him, he never stopped experimenting. If some new steel came out, he'd get some and make a test knife out of it and put it through the standard American Bladesmith Society tests. None ever held up like the carbon tool steels. Granted, the American Bladesmith Society tests are a little harsh, but the forged carbon blades made it. The stainless blades had a very high degree of breaking.

I like stainless in a pocket knife. I carry a sak that is a nice edc. But for a fixed blade or chopper in a survival situation, I'll go with carbon everytime.

 

[peripatew]

I'd be interested to see how Reeve's one peace knives would hold up to this guys beatings. I've got a Skinner, but I'm not about to do that too it, I have a hard enough time bringing myself to shave arm hair with it.

 

[Fiddleback]

LOL !!!

Yeah I've always been a little anti-stainless but I guess they do have their uses if you are working around saltwater a lot etc and they should also be fine for skinning knives and such !

I'd just rather see a 30 yr old beat up Carbon steel blade with a nice deep patina !!!! Guess I'm a bit of a traditionalist.

I stand corrected. Boats/water knives are another good reason.

 

[Ken C.]

Gentlemen,

This topic has been beaten to death in numerous threads on BFC. Why start another? Topics such as this only bring out the trolls, flamers, and fanboys. Let's keep sleeping dogs lie, please. Let it go and move on.

 

[Dannyboy Leather]

Keeping in mind, I have enough knives in both stainless and carbon to outfit the 101st Airborne Division. I really enjoy both carbon and stainless knives and fully realize that selecting one over the other would be entirely dependent on the mercies of the environment or activity. Why limit your considerations to one or the other? Strawberry or chocolate.

BTW, at one time, I was employed at one of the largest hydroelectric dams in the world as a young mechanical engineer. Our massive turbine blades were all stainless! Convex ground! The stresses on these blades (from the falling river in the draft tubes) is far beyond what most people can imagine. Want to discuss tough? Of course, resistance to corrosion, cavitation, or wear is the discussion. However, stainless (when designed properly) can be plenty tough for the average humanoid. If one enjoys his electricity, he will have no complete bias against stainless. A wonderful metal.

 

[Evolute]

Gentlemen,

This topic has been beaten to death in numerous threads on BFC. Why start another? Topics such as this only bring out the trolls, flamers, and fanboys. Let's keep sleeping dogs lie, please. Let it go and move on.

Lots of reasons, Ken. Because it is still a fresh subject for many. Because there is always the possibility of fresh insights to be garnered. Because the pace of technology makes the content of the discussion change, over time. Because these videos present new data points on the subject. Because this is an ongoing discussion forum, and not a Wiki. Because we'd rather hope for fruitful discussion than let the possibility of trolling prevent it.

Take your pick.

Please don't try to pressure us to abandon this discussion, just because of your personal preference. Obviously, those of us who chose to participate in this discussion felt that there is value in doing so.

 

[udtjim]

Good topic. Not everyone has read all of this before. Many don't have the search feature because of member issue's and the search is often down. I think Pit hit it on the head when he said stainless knives are best used for knives where cutting and slicing is the main duty. I would take it a step further and say that knife tests that test knives as hammers and hatchets, let alone pry bars, are of little value to me. I could get buy very well with stainless in the kitchen and 1095 and 01 for everything else.

 

[redscorpion6]

Lots of reasons, Ken. Because it is still a fresh subject for many. Because there is always the possibility of fresh insights to be garnered. Because the pace of technology makes the content of the discussion change, over time. Because these videos present new data points on the subject. Because this is an ongoing discussion forum, and not a Wiki. Because we'd rather hope for fruitful discussion than let the possibility of trolling prevent it.

Take your pick.

Please don't try to pressure us to abandon this discussion, just because of your personal preference. Obviously, those of us who chose to participate in this discussion felt that there is value in doing so.

Well said. Poor form to shut down the customer.