I hate to bring this up again but...

Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Messages
1,442
I'm afraid to bring this up again after the sheißgewittern that happened last time, but I think this may make some people happy. The Pharmacy just added several new benchmades, many of them advertised as having a "spyderco hole."
Maybe this is old news.

- Chris
 
Yea, BM wasn't so kind to them, but they know people want em, so I'm guessing they thought "since BM doesn't give em credit, we will"
 
Well, Sal said some time ago that a deal was worked out with BM. So I take him at his word. Quite frankly, I much rather see a Spyderhole on a BM advertised precisely as what it is, rather than see them pull a Skirmish.
 
What gripes me is it is advertised that way only by the dealer, not the maker.
 
HoB,

Is there a link, you can post to Sal's comments about the agreement with Benchmade?

Thanks.
Sal's only public comment was that there is an agreement, but that he is not at liberty to discuss the details of it. For that reason, I do not expect any further amplification from him will be forthcoming.

My personal opinion is that, if the agreement were in any way fair and equitable to Spyderco, then "the other party" would not be insisting it remain secret.

I'm of two minds regarding Mike's decision to include Spyderco's name in those product listings. On the one hand, it does give Spyderco the credit it deserves, on the other, it adds a note of legitimacy that I still feel is unwarranted.
 
I used to wonder about all the controversy. Then I did some research and I see where everyone is coming from. A company like BM should be held to a higher standard by themselves and their customers. I wouldn't expect them to do something like put a hole that another company uses on their knives, but alas it's happened. We as the consumers will decide if they continue to do it or not.
 
I'm of two minds regarding Mike's decision to include Spyderco's name in those product listings. On the one hand, it does give Spyderco the credit it deserves, on the other, it adds a note of legitimacy that I still feel is unwarranted.

I understand the point about the feelings of legitimacy, but I think Spyderco should get the credit regardless from whoever will proclaim it, especially in the case where BM is the one who will profit the most from the sale of those knives. It's certainly not equitable to Spyderco putting Emerson's patent number on the wave models, or their describing some of their knives as having Walker-style liner locks and Reeve-style frame locks, but I'd prefer to have the small measure of recognition instead of nothing at all. Hopefully other dealers may follow suit.
 
I agree with Deacon. It still smells, but at this point, what can you do? It seems quite clear now that we are going to see more round holes on BMs. I am not sure whether a dealer can afford to drop a line completely, and the responsibility in the end lies with the customer. I very much respect NGK dealing with reality this way.

In the end this is the last of a long list of things that BM "borrowed" from Spyderco. Just to name two others: They claimed they innovated bi-directional texturing on the handle...after Spyderco had already a knife out that featured it and was advertised as having it (may have even patented it). Just superimpose the shape of the AFCK and the Police. They are identical (no news there, just for those that might not know). Irony is that the Police is still being made and the AFCK is discontinued....:D.
 
Personally, I think that there are going to be a lot of Benchmade fans that are about to find out what the round hole is all about:) .

Ron
 
I can't figure out why they would switch to the round hole wholesale. Seems like there's a good five or ten new models with the hole. The oval on my newer AFCK worked fine, why not stick with that? It's not like they drill the holes, either. I suppose they could, which makes a round hole preferable, but I have some laser-cut spyder hole blanks from Spyderco, so I assume everyone would do it that way. Plus, with the oval hole, you don't have to pay any royalties. Maybe the round hole works better cosmetically on some knives, but not on everything.

I don' t think it will really influence my buying habits,and I know where the hole came from, but I'm just confused about the wholesale change.
 
Funny, hope this isn't a problem with Sal, if so, I'll remove it. But recently, a forumite asked me about the issue. Here's what I said:


"Facts:

* In the past, Spyderco has licensed the hole to other manufacturers, however, due to issues with BM not saying upfront it was Spyderco's trademark, Spyderco cancelled all contracts to their competition (note that custom makers are not their competition).
* BM Vex and other knives came out with the Spyderhole (registered trademark of Spyderco).
* Forumites brought it up on here and BladeForums.
* Insert break of one week or so, at which time we know that Kristi, Sal and others have seen the thread (and even moved one to Off-Topic, so we know for a fact that the saw the thread).
* After said break, we get told that there's an "agreement". Sal's tone was rather terse (or at least as much as one can gather from a post).


This is where the facts end. However, it's not that hard to join the dots.

Now, with a little thought, it's evident that the agreement wasn't made before the Vex came out, namely because Kristi, Sal and the rest had seen the threads, yet chosen not to answer them during that week or so. It simply makes no sense to allow us to argue if they could stop it by saying there was an argument in the first day or two.

Because of that, we surmise that the agreement was made after the Vex came out. Note the difference in size between Spyderco and BM. If Spyderco took BM to court, it would mostly end up with Spyderco being bankrupt or nearly so, even if they won.

Most BM fans will say "there's an agreement, so it's all fine". However, several of us believe that the agreement is along the lines of an out of court settlement, they type which goes along the lines of "we will pay you x dollars, and you will say that we did no wrong to you".

So legally, BM have done nothing wrong, and Spyderco will back them up. Morally/ethically, we have strong reason to believe that Spyderco is being short changed."
 
Th232: There is one component to this that is still missing. Sal stated that he and DeAsis go way back and it sounded to me that such issues are "worked out" more on a personal basis, directly from CEO to CEO. As I said, it is not the first time that things "came to an agreement" between these companies. I agree that Sal didn't seem happy and that it looked as if arrangements were made after the fact, but I also remember that Sal asked in another thread to drop the issue. So for the moment I am inclined to respect his wish, sit back and just observe how things develop.
 
Th232: There is one component to this that is still missing. Sal stated that he and DeAsis go way back and it sounded to me that such issues are "worked out" more on a personal basis, directly from CEO to CEO. As I said, it is not the first time that things "came to an agreement" between these companies. I agree that Sal didn't seem happy and that it looked as if arrangements were made after the fact, but I also remember that Sal asked in another thread to drop the issue. So for the moment I am inclined to respect his wish, sit back and just observe how things develop.

Good point HoB. Issue dropped, but not forgotten.
 
* Insert break of one week or so, at which time we know that Kristi, Sal and others have seen the thread (and even moved one to Off-Topic, so we know for a fact that the saw the thread).
* After said break, we get told that there's an "agreement". Sal's tone was rather terse (or at least as much as one can gather from a post).


Now, with a little thought, it's evident that the agreement wasn't made before the Vex came out, namely because Kristi, Sal and the rest had seen the threads, yet chosen not to answer them during that week or so. It simply makes no sense to allow us to argue if they could stop it by saying there was an argument in the first day or two.


."

I was out of the country when the thread appeared so I hadn't seen it until I returned a week or so later. Kristi, Kelly and crew didn't feel it was their place to respond, so they waited until I returned to call the thread to my attention. When I returned home, I reponded.

sal
 
I was out of the country when the thread appeared so I hadn't seen it until I returned a week or so later. Kristi, Kelly and crew didn't feel it was their place to respond, so they waited until I returned to call the thread to my attention. When I returned home, I reponded.

sal

Thanks for the clarification Sal.
 
Back
Top