I have a NMFBMLE and one leg

[adrock1978]

Has anyone noticed their NMFBM can be unwieldy? I'll admit mine is a bit (not grossly) dull, but does the fat cross section combined with the convex edge seem to cause glancing blows for anyone else? I mostly chop up logs for on the spot campfires, or larger sticks around the yard. If I hold anything vertically and chop down at an angle, or just not perfectly square, I've noticed several swings glance off without biting in. If my stance is not just right, a few of them would be knee cap removers.

I've noticed the same thing in most chopping scenarios at different angles. You have to physically concentrate on keeping that darn thing from turning in your hand and swinging square blows every time. I use a braided leather bow sling as a tether wrapped tight around my wrist, so at least it wont fly out of my hand.

Maybe the smooth fat hand shaped LE grips aren't the best option? Would something more aggressive tear up my hand?

Lastly, how does a BWM compare in this respect with its thinner blade?

 

[Last Visible Canary]

The fusion handles are fairly round at every position (index, middle and pinky), with the flattest section being at the index finger. If you have mags it's even more so. The non-mag ergo and TTKZ handles are flatter and a little better at resisting torque in use. The hand smoothed handles are much worse from my experience, the only thing keeping the knife from turning in your hand is the amount of grip your applying to it and the surface tension between your hand and the slabs. If you remove the machining, that surface tension is on a flat surface and it gives less purchase. I actually sent my NMFBM directly to garth for standard machined slabs a few days after receiving it because I could tell that the hand smoothed mags were going to turn too easily.

I haven't had/used a BWM so I can't comment from experience, but it seems like the thicker pinky section would give the a little more skin to handle tension as well as a fuller overall grip with the pinky acting as a stabilizer. It's been my experience that, though it doesn't apply the most force, the pinky plays a huge roll in stabilizing your grip on anything. If you compare the fusion handle to the SAR4/6/8 handle you'll find that the SAR handle feels immediately more stable (less likely to turn) during chopping and high torque applications. My complain against the fusion handles has always been that the pinky section is too small, so all of your grip strength is applied to your index and middle fingers which have a hard time keeping it from turning since all their strength is used to keep the knife in the hand.

 

[steelnut]

When I had it in the woods it out chopped everything including a TT KZ
I think sharpening it will make a difference

 

[Last Visible Canary]

When I had it in the woods it out chopped everything including a TT KZ
I think sharpening it will make a difference

I'm not saying the TTKZ is going to give better chopping performance if both are in their stock geometries, just that the handle feels more stable in regards to torquing in your hand during off angle chops.

 

[GregS]

Limp wrists perhaps?

Just kidding... I haven't had this problem with any of my Busse's, but then again I don't have any smooth handled users. I have had this problem with my Himalayan Imports Khukri's. The cylindrical/slick handle was the cause. Try some grip tape and a lanyard in the forward rivet, it helps.

 

[RussMo]

On big blade choppers I'm not fond of the Hand Shape grips at all, much prefer the machine/textured grips for hanging on to. I have smooth on my KZ2 but I haven't used it yet so I'm not commenting on them. LVC makes a point about say standard grips and I agree with that for sure. There is less tendancy for the blade to rotate in your hand w/standards. I still like Mags myself but if I'm going to do a lot of chopping by hand (not using and axe) I were a rubber gloves and don't worry about it at all. Big thing here is hand fatigue. With a glove that can minimize that as well. Yea you've got the heman crowd that say I don't wear a glove for nothing, OK that's fine, but I live in a colder climate and they work here. A little chopping around the camp I'm fine with mags and no gloves and they don't turn on me much. Steelnut make a BIG POINT, keep it sharp. A convex edge is great for chopping but you need to keep it with a keen edge for peak performance. Again think of an axe edge and the conture of that edge (easier to visualize an axe edge geometry). Allow that edge to become deformed and it want cut as well, but keep it keen it will cut all day. I'm not saying paper cutting here, just keen.

 

[adrock1978]

The fusion handles are fairly round at every position (index, middle and pinky), with the flattest section being at the index finger. If you have mags it's even more so. The non-mag ergo and TTKZ handles are flatter and a little better at resisting torque in use. The hand smoothed handles are much worse from my experience, the only thing keeping the knife from turning in your hand is the amount of grip your applying to it and the surface tension between your hand and the slabs. If you remove the machining, that surface tension is on a flat surface and it gives less purchase. I actually sent my NMFBM directly to garth for standard machined slabs a few days after receiving it because I could tell that the hand smoothed mags were going to turn too easily.

I haven't had/used a BWM so I can't comment from experience, but it seems like the thicker pinky section would give the a little more skin to handle tension as well as a fuller overall grip with the pinky acting as a stabilizer. It's been my experience that, though it doesn't apply the most force, the pinky plays a huge roll in stabilizing your grip on anything. If you compare the fusion handle to the SAR4/6/8 handle you'll find that the SAR handle feels immediately more stable (less likely to turn) during chopping and high torque applications. My complain against the fusion handles has always been that the pinky section is too small, so all of your grip strength is applied to your index and middle fingers which have a hard time keeping it from turning since all their strength is used to keep the knife in the hand.

Yeah, being an LE it has hand shaped mags. It seems like, like you said, that I have to concentrate too heavily on the torque issue as well as the pressure of my grip. It seems the rounded convex edge may compound the problem though. If the zero edge doesn't catch 100%, the radius of the blade send it flying to the right (because I'm right handed). I mean... don't get me wrong (Sc0tT), it chops like a beast. Even dull(er) it sends wood flying. And I wouldn't expect to NOT have to apply additional control over a knife its size. I guess its just inherent with a chopping knife of its size. Maybe I will swap the slabs eventually.

When I had it in the woods it out chopped everything including a TT KZ
I think sharpening it will make a difference

I often forget the debt of gratitude I owe you for this knife. My son's son's kids will be swinging it. Its off to the Busse spa very soon!

 

[adrock1978]

Limp wrists perhaps?

Just kidding... I haven't had this problem with any of my Busse's, but then again I don't have any smooth handled users. I have had this problem with my Himalayan Imports Khukri's. The cylindrical/slick handle was the cause. Try some grip tape and a lanyard in the forward rivet, it helps.

HEY!!! WHOA!!!! EASY!!! I'll have you know my right hand wrist is PLENTY strong!

 

[richstag]

Sharpening would help a lot but then again it might just make it take off both of ur legs. (Joke). Seriously maybe it is just too much knife for u. I say this not trying to offend u but being realistic. If I felt uncomfortable with a blade I would go with something that fit me better. It doesn't matter how big and bad it is if u can't control it or u may hurt urself with it. I would sharpen it and grip tape it and if that doesn't work go with a lighter blade. I guess the best thing to say is a razor sharp BM is not something to play around with. Imho.

 

[adrock1978]

Sharpening would help a lot but then again it might just make it take off both of ur legs. (Joke). Seriously maybe it is just too much knife for u. I say this not trying to offend u but being realistic. If I felt uncomfortable with a blade I would go with something that fit me better. It doesn't matter how big and bad it is if u can't control it or u may hurt urself with it. I would sharpen it and grip tape it and if that doesn't work go with a lighter blade. I guess the best thing to say is a razor sharp BM is not something to play around with. Imho.

WELL!!! I NEVER!!!! No, you're right. There should be a comfort level there. I'm not saying its completely uncontrollable, more wondering if its inherent in the design and DOES require some additional application of technology (tape/glove). It seems a tremendous amount of thought went into getting the KZ handle just right. I'd hate to consider its "too much" knife for me, rather maybe not the best slab/handle shape for a blade with its dimensions.

I was really just curious. I wouldn't change anything about the knife and I largely have no issues with it. I notice it does have a tendency to torque more than other knives.

 

[Will York]

I found the LE was more knife than I was comfortable with--just way too nose heavy. I felt much more comfortable with the CG, but with gloves the hand-shaped smooth grips were a little slick. Then I got the convexed satin version shown above with machine-textured black paper, right in between the CG and LE thicknesses @ .26"--dead perfect. I knew I had The One.

Whether with smooth grips or textured, I always use a lanyard with the NMFBM for full-power swings, though—as in the following:

http://www.knifetests.com/bussenmfbmchoppingdemo.html

 

[resinguy]

I agree with all the comments regarding grip shape, but just wanted to add that with any large, heavy chopping device, one must take it slow, think about your stance, and think each chop through. Mindless chopping can lead to legless chopping.

Read a story once where a hunter was found out in the field out in the West. He had shot an elk and apparently was breaking down the carcass and an errant chop got him in his thigh and severed his femoral artery.

Think about each chop.

 

[M67]

I don't have any experience with the NMFBM or the BWM, besides just handling them.

BUT... I do have experience with one leg and glancing blows:

One leg: Hit (sliced) my lower right leg with a machete, 10 external stitches, 3 or 4 internal.

Glancing blows: Almost whacked my right leg with my RMJ Eagle Talon a couple times, but I just whoosed my pants. And I hit my left shin with an axe once, but my pants stopped any injury besides a goose egg.

Sharp things are dangerous

 

[komondor]

Adrock-- are you using a front lanyard (or top hole in the handle), which is common for a knife this size? Or are you just using the bottom talon hole for the lanyard? I think the top hole lanyard, tightly wrapped, would work better.

 

[GregS]

Adrock-- are you using a front lanyard (or top hole in the handle), which is common for a knife this size? Or are you just using the bottom talon hole for the lanyard? I think the top hole lanyard, tightly wrapped, would work better.

Yep, it keeps the blades handle nice and snug against ones palm.

 

[adrock1978]

I agree with all the comments regarding grip shape, but just wanted to add that with any large, heavy chopping device, one must take it slow, think about your stance, and think each chop through. Mindless chopping can lead to legless chopping.

Read a story once where a hunter was found out in the field out in the West. He had shot an elk and apparently was breaking down the carcass and an errant chop got him in his thigh and severed his femoral artery.

Think about each chop.

I think, above all else, I need to do this. Too often it does become mindless

Adrock-- are you using a front lanyard (or top hole in the handle), which is common for a knife this size? Or are you just using the bottom talon hole for the lanyard? I think the top hole lanyard, tightly wrapped, would work better.

Yep, it keeps the blades handle nice and snug against ones palm.

I've only been using the rear tallon hole. A lanyard in the front hole will actually help the torquing problem? I'll definitely try it out.

 

[giant1]

I have both the NMFBM LE and FBMLE and I have to say that whilst I love both of them I think they are a lot of knife. I also have a CGFBM which is a lot better in use for the sort of jobs that you would use a knife like that for.

IMHO, If you need to use more than a CGFBM you are better off getting a small axe or hatchet for the job.

 

[M67]

I've only been using the rear tallon hole. A lanyard in the front hole will actually help the torquing problem? I'll definitely try it out.

Using the top talon hole does help a lot with chopping and stabilizes the knife more :thumbup:

I did that during a chopping competition with my NMSFNO, helped a ton and the knife held in place VERY well

 

[Bigfattyt]

I use the forward lanyard on my big knives.

It only stabilizes the knife if you have it snug around your wrist and have the length right. On the other hand, if you do it tight and use it for too long, you can break the skin! I did this once with my FBMLE. I was using it for snap cuts for an extended period. I was trimming a long stretch of unruly bush about 10 feet long that extended from knee to about 12 feet in height. I eventually tore through the skin all around my wrist. The next time I trimmed I used leather gloves.

I was actually using the right paracord lanyard to check the snap cut, so that is a lot of mass to stop.

I had a FBMLE with hand shaped mags (done by Bill Siegle). I actually did not notice as much twist as I have with the big machined grips on the KZII.

But the FBMLE had a thinner edge, with less meat behind it. I did a high convex on that one. I left more meat on the convex on the KZII (I may go back and take more off later). The FBMLE might have been a tiny bit better at resisting twist. It has a more neutral balance than the the NMFBMLE. Shorter blade, and actually a bit taller edge to spine (the "humps" make it so).

 

[PeterPHWS]

Has anyone noticed their NMFBM can be unwieldy? I'll admit mine is a bit (not grossly) dull, but does the fat cross section combined with the convex edge seem to cause glancing blows for anyone else?
Yes, I have noticed this. A while back I did a review where I compared a fully convexed Kiku Matsuda knife I had got with a BWM LE which were both around the same size. By simply whacking both into the stump I use as a chopping block I could tell that the BWM LE bit a lot easier into the wood than the Kiku. The reason was the cross section shape of the convex grind on the Kiku. It was like the original grind of the TTKZ and the NMFBM LE ... they have more of a "pear shape" convex cross section ... rather than the optimum which is an "apple seed" cross section ... by this I mean if you take the BWM LE with it's sabre grind which is quite a high sabre grind and were youto round off the sabre flats so they tapered into the flat grind "V" which leads to the edge ... then you would have the perfect "apple seed" convex cross section ... in fact you don't have to do this to the BWM LE as it's shape as a sabre grind is IMO just about perfect as is ... it is one of the best cross section "tapering" profiles for chopping that Busse have done for "performance" ... there is less girth in the "V" just behind the edge on the shoulder than in other models such as the original grinds of the TTKZ and the NMFBM LE and this is what makes the difference. Having a slightly dull blade is not helping in terms of biting into the logs but the main reason why the "bite" can lead to a glancing blow is the overall geometry curve on the shoulder which if too thick enables the "glancing" effect to happen. The answer lies in reprofiling the lower 3/4's of the edge so that there is almost a flat "V" for this section from the edge up to where a high sabre grind would begin and then let the convex blend into the thickness area by the spine so that it resembles an "apple seed shape" ...

To do this I glue some leather to the platten on my belt sander so that when pressing the edge to the platten you don't get the metal "chatter" created by the belt and blade contacting the metal platten as the hide leather acts as a cushion ... and then you can thin the edge down with the hide gradually having some "give" in it to create a nice fine curve up to the thicker high part of the grind near the spine ... the difference on how the blade then performs is truly remarkable ... I did this when cleaning off tooling marks on my NMFBM CG after stripping it in order to give it a fully convex edge and this worked so well I now use this knife as the profile format for all my other fully convex blades ... in particular it was used to re-shape the convex grinds on my TTKZ and the KZII ... and all three dramatically improved on performance.

I mostly chop up logs for on the spot campfires, or larger sticks around the yard. If I hold anything vertically and chop down at an angle, or just not perfectly square, I've noticed several swings glance off without biting in. If my stance is not just right, a few of them would be knee cap removers.

I chop the same way and like you do I watch my position carefully. Once the knife is sharp and profiled right you should'nt have any more trouble. That technique is fine ... it is the knife that needs sorting out ...

I've noticed the same thing in most chopping scenarios at different angles. You have to physically concentrate on keeping that darn thing from turning in your hand and swinging square blows every time. I use a braided leather bow sling as a tether wrapped tight around my wrist, so at least it wont fly out of my hand.

Maybe the smooth fat hand shaped LE grips aren't the best option? Would something more aggressive tear up my hand?

Smooth hand shaped magnum grips are the ideal for me ... they let you chop longer ... and I don't use gloves as I like to feel the grip for control ... but hand shapes and grips are an individual thing ... as is a glove preference ...

Lastly, how does a BWM compare in this respect with its thinner blade?

The BWM LE and the BWM CG are great but a properly profiled fully convexed NMFBM will out perform them ... try and thin down the shoulder of the NMFBM LE and see how it performs before changing anything ...:thumbup: