I have decided to Test a $350 Plus STRIDER

[Liam Ryan]

so we would rather give the $$ and save the time for things that are of greater value to us.

Like going to work for a week to make the money to be able to pay for the knife?
Your logic makes sense if you happen to win the lottery or have inhereted the money.

Some times people just want to spend money, we are in a capitalist society.
There is really nothing wrong with shelling out the dough, as long as the buyer is satisfied and doesn't feel like they got ripped off, everyones happy.

BTW, Broos, my bushman keeps an edge pretty well, havent sharpened it yet
after a good couple of months as my main kitchen knife as well as slicing a lot of cardboard and paper. not heavy use, mind you but I havent been watching the kids grow old while I sharpened my knife.

Anyway, what do you have to gain by calling Noss a self promoting dweeb and a ding dong?
Are you out money, time and labour? Do you own stock in becker or ka-bar?
Probably not.
Do a lot of people find the testing entertaing at least, and informative and interesting?
Yes.

So before you criticize and name call, imagine that the people in this forum are knowlegable enough to understand knives aren't for chopping up bricks, and the difference between toughness and hardness.
noss is testing to failure and thats what caused it, and many were actually surprised that the bushman survived being smashed into a brick.

Also, I look foreward to seeing your laboratory tests, are you recruiting scientists and buying the expensive testing equipment as we speak?

 

[noss4]

I received the Strider BT. I will perform test Friday night it will be posted Saturday morning.

It looks like a good tough knife. Nicely made.

 

[Redguy]

I received the Strider BT. I will perform test Friday night it will be posted Saturday morning.

It looks like a good tough knife. Nicely made.

Hell yeah! Just do the testing, I get the popcorn.

 

[truthseeker]

Thank God!!

 

[Michelle]

Hey. Super cool post Mr. Linton. Seriously. Thanks for this. I really don't want to hijack this thread too much more than it already has been. lol. It has taken some weird tangents from the original poster's content. So I'm going to just address a couple of issues. If someone wants to start another thread about cost of production and "little shop versus medium shop versus BIG shop" that would probably be enlightening, but we shouldn't probably pursue it here? (This is not a cop out... as an Admin of several forums, I am cognizant of trying to not pull things off topic whenever possible).

I agree hurt feelings never advance discussion. Yet there are literally pages of hurt feelings in this thread (interestingly enough, as much regarding Busse as Strider !?!).... and so the discussion moves forward in fits and stops.

Yes, quite a few Strider fixed blades come with scales. It's a misnomer that the "paracord" is the only thing you will find on the handle of a Strider fixed blade. It's not a big deal. What is really cool is some people (including you) now know this, whereas they didn't before. This is what forums were originally supposed to be about... giving and receiving information. Not hearsay. Not rumors. Not silly innuendos of "I heard so and so said thus and such about someone in a bar" who later has to retract that statement because it is retardedly false when evidence gets brought to light... (but a certain amount of damage already is done). It's supposed to be about swapping knowledge. Isn't it? I always thought so.

You have made a good start. The saying goes that lawyers "practice" law, and much practice is needed. (Does Welsh apply in your state?)

Hahahaha. I made a good start... but then became a quitter. I figured out the field of law wasn't about justice (yes it took me 9 years... I'm a slow learner )... so I did a career switch about 8 years ago into higher technology. Which made me laugh when you schooled me about "Google". It's so ironic isn't it how we can know nothing about people and yet sometimes hit things with a silliness bullseye.

I quess we disagree about what has in fact been said and whether it is relevant or not. Such things happen here.

Actually I think it is our interpretation that differs. That doesn't just happen here! That's what makes the world go round.... round-a-kilter....

Truly, I was not trying to make fun of you.

mmmmmm. okay.

IMHO, what it costs to make a Strider knife is not determined, if it ever could be, solely by defining what "large scale" is. As I have argued, consistent with accounting practices, "cost" of a product is not only a summing up of incremental expenses (such as 6Al-4v Ti at @ $239.00 per .125 x 6 x 6" piece ) but also involves a fair allocation of non-incremental costs (such as the cost of the machinery and any debt service). So I respectfully disagree that we will ever find out if M40 is correct primarily by defining "large scale" and deciding if Strider is "large scale."

Certainly, the number of pieces produced impacts allocation of non-incremental costs and may impact what Strider pays for materials (or not if the company has the resources to buy in large quantity in advance of short-term need).

REALLY want to pursue this... but not in this thread.

If there a company that makes heavy-duty knives of comparable materials that you DO feel is comparable in size to Strider?

Hmmmm. This is where my path diverts from most of you folks. See, I think there are many, many, many wonderful knives out there... but to me, knives are like shoes. I have my army issue jungle boots and I have my Carlos Santana 4" pumps and I have many shoes in between for any given circumstance. I'm the same way with knives. I love my Striders... and my Cooglers and my HAK and my Krein... and on and on. Different ones have different applications. I think anything ever designed by Bill Harsey is the cats meow for field use. I think Rick Hinderer's XM-18 is incredible (and Strider uses his lockbar stabilizer on the SnG and the SMF... pretty brilliant). Jerry Hossom's retribution is pretty close to perfection in a large fixed blade... Busse, Spyderco, ALL these people put out great knives. I guess I am weird. I can have a favorite maker or two without thinking everyone else is subpar. I know that's weird. That's just me. If I'm going to take 1 knife with me into unknown territiory though, it's going to be a Strider. Why? Because I trust it. It's 50% psychological and 50% proven testiment by myself and others close to me. I don't need the "approval" of anyone else. NO ONE needs the approval of anyone else regarding what knife they prefer. It's ridiculous to think so. Second choice for me (if fixed) would be a Grayman or a Brock. That alone should tell you how broad-spectrum my taste is. But for folder it would be Strider all the way. They feel and perform different from any other folder I've ever held. They just work better for ME.

Finally, but most importantly perhaps(?), I do NOT nor have I ever worked for Strider knives. I was fortunate enough, several years back, to be intricately involved in the Tarani collaborations over the last few years. That has given me insight and knowledge of how they (Strider) do business, and what kind of people are behind the company name. Despite the public bumpy road and rough edges that might be percieved, I have been left incredibly impressed. As for my own knifemaking venture, it is seperate, fledgeling, and very idealistic/optimimstic. Oh, and we only cater to/make blades for girls.

I appreciate the reply Mr. Linton, and thank you for being kind and courteous in same. We would all get so much further in communication if we could keep to such parameters.

One thing I have learned over the last few years is this: Knives are like religion to some folk. They want to convince you that theirs is "correct" and everyone else's is "wrong". This will never accomplish anything. I prefer to look at knives the same way as *I* veiw religion... everyone's is RIGHT in their preference if it works for THEM. It is not my job nor anyone else's to convert anyone. EVERYONE is correct, as long as their specific choice meets their needs and wants.

I love the fact there are loyalists in this industry. Fanatics walk a fine line however.

It's all about tolerance. At least to me it is.

I now turn this back over to the original poster-guy who is gonna do the crash-test-dummy stuff on a perfectly good knife and then ask for it to be replaced for free by a guy who will pay out of pocket to do so, even though he has to feed his wife and kids. And he'll replace it. This I know. Because he keeps his word.

m1

 

[Cobalt]

Cobalt, I am very sorry I berated you for acting childish.
It is quite understandable that you should sheepishly try to save face by going on the defensive and questioning my intentions.
But what you saw as me trying to stir the pot by mentioning busse was actually a legitimate warning,

Again the only one acting childish is you here. And again another personal attack. Again quite obvious as to your intentions sir. And as for you having a sense of humor. I read your posts in the past and my last comment about you stands.

you were and still are trying to stir the pot. Plain and simple. :thumbdn:

And I am sure that you will make another worthless additional comment to this thread as it is in your nature.

 

[noss4]

I now turn this back over to the original poster-guy who is gonna do the crash-test-dummy stuff on a perfectly good knife and then ask for it to be replaced for free by a guy who will pay out of pocket to do so, even though he has to feed his wife and kids. And he'll replace it. This I know. Because he keeps his word. m1

I keep my word to. I started this thread and I will finish it.

The feed the wife and kid stuff sounds like a psych job to me. You sure you don't work for Strider ?

 

[Jos]

Cobalt, I am very sorry I berated you for acting childish.
It is quite understandable that you should sheepishly try to save face by going on the defensive and questioning my intentions.
But what you saw as me trying to stir the pot by mentioning busse was actually a legitimate warning,(but mostly a joke, but I know now you are laking in a sense of humour) as I would love to see this thread die rather then go on for 20 more pages, so the last word is yours sir,hopefully you do the right thing with it.

After deciding earlier not to post in this thread anymore... one last remark. Mr. Ryan, if you want this thread to die, why do you keep posting in it?

 

[dpimpc]

Finally, but most importantly perhaps(?), I do NOT nor have I ever worked for Strider knives. I was fortunate enough, several years back, to be intricately involved in the Tarani collaborations over the last few years. That has given me insight and knowledge of how they (Strider) do business, and what kind of people are behind the company name. Despite the public bumpy road and rough edges that might be percieved, I have been left incredibly impressed. As for my own knifemaking venture, it is seperate, fledgeling, and very idealistic/optimimstic. Oh, and we only cater to/make blades for girls.
m1

I stand corrected and humbly apologize for my assumption. Thank you.

 

[hardheart]

I want my knives to be sharp, hold an edge WELL, be ergonomic, and either cut or chop or both well. I can get a bushman sharp, but it does not do very well in the rest of the above criteria. I could care less how many times a knife can be hit with a freakin hammer while being held in a vice, or how many times I can wail the flat of the blade against a vice (WTF?).

I certainly agree that a soft low or mid Rc50's bushman blade will withstand the senseless abuse demonstrated here longer than a S30V Rc59 blade.

What is not apparent is that the force it will take to break the Rc59 S30V blade in brittle failure will be MUCH greater than it will take to bend (then break) the bushman. In other words, when you are not taking any measurements of force, you can easily come to the conclusion that a soft blade that fails in ductile failure is "stronger" or "better" than the Rc59 S30V blade that broke in brittle failure. So the blade that is stronger looks bad, since you are just mindlessly beating them with no standards, no measurements, and no uniformity from hit to hit to hit.

Hand in hand with hardness/strength versus ductility/toughness is usually edge retention. I'll bet you'll sharpen the bushman about 10 times before the S30V blade needs one sharpening in normal use. For my uses of a knife that is important, but I guess it doesn't mean as much to those who use their knives mainly to break rocks and concrete blocks. I use my pick axe and cold chisel for that kind of work.

A real test has these things called measurements. There is a reason no company determines how to actually design or build something by "testing" like this (except for the chinese cold chisel mafia bastards). Because knowing how long it takes for a ding-dong to break a knife tells you ONLY one thing, and that is how long it takes a ding dong to break a knife.

Now if someone did some destructive testing and actually did it even semi-scientifically, and did it without being such a self promoting dweeb, I'd enjoy it and probably would not post criticisms. Or if it was "tested" to failure by throwing it as a spear I would find that somewhat useful, because this is the only feature on this knife that makes it attractive as a BOB knife to me. But what some people have read into these "tests" is just way too much. I apologize in advance for the long post & stirring the pot again. That is all.

I agree with much of what you posted, but realize that's not what people are using as reasons to buy these brutish blades. Just in the last week I saw a few comments about why Striders, Busses, etc. were bought. Was it for edge holding? Ergos? OOB sharpness and cross section optimized for cutting? No, they were bought, the premium price justified, for when the SHTF. That exact acronym used. References to splitting up a driveway, warranties against being thrown, snipers chipping holes in brick walls for their weapons, use as a makeshift breaching tool, etc. These knives aren't primarily advertised as long-lasting scalpels. Do you level the same criticism at the Busse group of knives for the same brick-busting demonstrations, or Strider gladly relaying stories of their knives being used to pry into jammed mini-gun innards to restore operation? In none of these do I see measurements and hard data.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I want my knives to be sharp, hold an edge WELL, be ergonomic, and either cut or chop or both well.

None of the above was how Strider promoted their blades, they did it exactly the same as Noos has done, chopping the knife into glass, other knives, pounding it with a sledghammer, chopping into concrete, steel, etc. . I don't recall any criticism by you (or anyone else in ths thread) when Strider was doing those promotions themselves.

-Cliff

 

[noss4]

None of the above was how Strider promoted their blades, they did it exactly the same as Noos has done, chopping the knife into glass, other knives, pounding it with a sledghammer, chopping into concrete, steel, etc. . I don't recall any criticism by you (or anyone else in ths thread) when Strider was doing those promotions themselves.

-Cliff

Cliff do you know were some of this is posted. ? I would like to see it. before I do my work. I have been to their site and didn't notice it. Maybe I missed it.

I love your site. keep it coming.:thumbup:

 

[StretchNM]

I don;t think there's going to be any test. It appears that NOSS is on here so much, responding to every post, that it's no more than sensationalism. Plus, if he wanted to test the knife, he would've taken Josh from Strider up on his offer to send him a knife.

$1 says there won;t be a test.

 

[Saunterer]

Hey Stretch,

Noss said he has it. I can't wait.

I received the Strider BT. I will perform test Friday night it will be posted Saturday morning.

It looks like a good tough knife. Nicely made.

I work in a laboratory environment and we test using requirements set by an industry and possible usage of a certain product. It's great to see someone just using something for all of us to cast judgement versus looking at testing results from a sterile secure testing environment.

Noss, while your testing methods are not consistant nor standardized, keep it up. What you do in one hour of testing is more than what all of us do in the lifetime of a knife. Keep it up. :thumbup:

 

[StretchNM]

Well, if he tests it, good. It just seems like so much sensationalism with 26+ pages of posts, and argueing, and everything else. If he has it and tests it.... well then I was wrong. Let's see.

 

[noss4]

I don;t think there's going to be any test. It appears that NOSS is on here so much, responding to every post, that it's no more than sensationalism. Plus, if he wanted to test the knife, he would've taken Josh from Strider up on his offer to send him a knife.

$1 says there won;t be a test.

Defiance until the end. Exactly what I like to see in knives.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Cliff do you know were some of this is posted.

Concrete and steel impacts were done live. Edge into glass, edge into other edges, knives viced through other knives were posted here in their forum. Sledgehammer impacts, pounding through rock etc., were cited in a promotional email.

-Cliff

 

[noss4]

Concrete and steel impacts were done live. Edge into glass, edge into other edges, knives viced through other knives were posted here in their forum. Sledgehammer impacts, pounding through rock etc., were cited in a promotional email.

-Cliff

Okay. Thanks

 

[Broos]

Anyway, what do you have to gain by calling Noss a self promoting dweeb and a ding dong?

Nothing, I just couldn't help it. This "test" was meant from the beginning to be sensational, and meant to draw some heat, too. I just took the bait. In Nossy's credit I'll say he has given the forum a great slogan that will surely be repeated many times.

I guess I am just more apt to call a poster a dweeb than slam a knife company with no explanation. After reading back through this thread I'll go as far as adding that I think you are a whiner. You stirred the pot and than couldn't take it. Hey, Noss can take it and so should you.

Do a lot of people find the testing entertaing at least, and informative and interesting?
Yes.

That is fine. But there are previous posts by members and Noss that assume from this "test" that the bushman is some superknife. This assumption that the results of this will validate a knife as a "good knife" is what prompted me to post. I think it is a bad assumption.

I think some testing like this is good - hitting a block a few times to see what effect it will have on an edge makes sense to me. Sticking the tip into wood and prying it out is a good test.

Cliff & Hardheart, I was not addressing what a company uses to promote their knives, I was just giving my criteria. I own both Strider and Busse, and IMO they fit my criteria. If someone wants to promote a knife using this kind of "testing" than I think in moderation it's fine, but to make many performance claims based on it would be a double edged sword for any maker - some not so wise folks may buy into it, and others will dislike you for it. The maker takes their chances.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

I was not addressing what a company uses to promote their knives...

I know, that was the problem. You were critizing an approach by an individual, fairly severely, and ignoring the exact same approach was used by the very people who make the knives. Logically then, the exact same labels you applied would be even more valid for them.

-Cliff