I have had about enough of this!

Q

Quy4n8

Joined
Nov 27, 2002
Messages
659
If this is the wrong place to post this, please move it.

Well, it’s time for me to vent, and this is the best place to do that, since most of us here would understand. I was reading the thread about taking knives into Six Flags in Baltimore and got fed up. It used to be that just about every 12 year old boy carried a pocket knife; AT SCHOOL EVEN. Now you have to go through a metal detector just to go to an amusement park. We have lost our collective mind. What happened to being responsible for your own actions, being responsible for your own safety, etc. I was at a local hospital several weeks ago, and although there weren’t any metal detectors (yet) there was a sign out front that clearly stated no weapons, including knives with blades over 2 ½”. That makes a standard size SAK out of the question. It wasn’t that long ago that boys went to school with their .22’s to hunt rabbits after classes.

Call me a right wing extremist if you will, but I think that if instead of raising sheep, we raised children with values and the courage to back them up we would once again be what America was created to be. If we wouldn’t be taught that you should just let the criminal take what he wants, but fight for yourself, don’t always look for someone else to fight you battles, we would be a much stronger nation. We shouldn’t be thinking that the ten dollars in my wallet isn’t worth my life, we should be thinking that criminal act upon my person will not be tolerated, EVER.

As an example, my son got in trouble at school for a shoving match last year, not a fight, just two boys pushing each other. That got him a suspension, but worse than that, it was considered a fight and if anytime in the next 6 years in this school system he gets into a fight, he faces mandatory expulsion. It doesn’t matter whether he starts the fight or not, he is NOT supposed to defend himself, just take it until a teacher decides to stop it. Needless to say, if this happens, I told him to defend himself and we will take the consequences as they come. In this same school system a couple of 8th graders were caught with alcohol and cocaine in their lockers. They will get 3 days in school suspension, but no threat of expulsion. This makes sense???

Anyway, the point of all this, I am one of two people in my office that actually carries a knife daily, and more than once I have gotten comments like “What are you going to do with that bear skinner?” To bad, I am also the one everybody else comes to when they need to cut something. I hope that by carrying and using my knives in the open, people here will once again see a pocket knife as a normal tool, not a weapon the way the media usually portrays them. To all of you out there, keep using your knife. It doesn’t matter that you can open you mail by tearing the envelope, pull out you knife and use it. Maybe if us knife knuts use our blades in public often enough for useful purposes, we can combat the negative image in the media and the general public will see them as the ancient tools they are. Thanks for reading.
 
I think you're mostly preaching to the choir on this one, Amen.

Some of the first knives that I bought with my own money were at Six Flags Over Texas. They used to have a knife shop around the corner from the Southern Palace Theater, had a whole bunch of real nice knives there. I actually looked forward to going to Six Flags to buy knives!

Sucks.

Brandon
 
I agree with,and have said about everything you said myself.

I give knives as gifts to kind of help our numbers grow and let folks see for themselves how handy they are.
 
I agree 100% All the politicians have done is effectively disarm the law abiding citizens. So now the criminals, terrorists and others with malicious intent, have an even greater advantage than they had before. :rolleyes:
 
Agreed, zero tolerance means zero responsibility...
I carry at work, I get the strange looks but they always want me to cut things.
LOL I had to lend my Razel to a lady who needed to cut her underwear... I don't want to know that story.
 
Amen Brother! Preach it!

I agree with you whole heartedly. My other job is a RN in a regional trauma center and when I started no one carried a knife except me. After two years I am finally making some headway. I have three of my coworkers carrying folders. Not high end stuff yet but give me time. They are all carrying pretty good blades. One Spyderco, one Kershaw chive, and a browning.

Last ER I worked in I had about half of them carrying spydercos before I quit, and most of them were women! I even had two lady nurses sporting surefires. :eek:

We can make a positive influence on the people we are around. Carry on the good work.

Tom
 
Maybe if they gave everyone boarding a flight a big knife it would scare would be terrorists trying to take over the plane. You going to try and out knife 50-100 other passengers?

I believe in safety in numbers. There will always be more good people than bad people and if all the good people are heavily armed the bad people don't stand a chance and will be unlikely to try anything stupid.

You would probably enjoy this cartoon:

http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/16117
 
Richard, VERY well put. When I was in school, teachers used to ask me for my knife because they knew I had one that would actually cut. Some of them that hunted would bring in their knives for me to sharpen. More than once I saw a teacher turn his/her back to one of those "shoving matches". Guess they thought it best to let it sort itself out unless it started to get out of hand. The school my kids go to now has an armed policeman walking the halls. :confused: Things certainly have changed. And not for the better.

Paul
 
PWork said:
The school my kids go to now has an armed policeman walking the halls. :confused: Things certainly have changed. And not for the better.

Paul
Click to expand...
My high school had one old woman - well, upper middle aged - for security. She was a tough old dyke though, and rumored to be exceedingly skilled at karate. Not once in those 4 years did I ever see her have to get tough with anybody. Nobody was willing to find out just what she could do. :D

Oh yeah, we also had an official school-designated smoking area for the students. I suppose things have changed a bit since then.
 
I guess having police at school depends on where you grew up. In the late 1950's I attended Central Jr. High in Kansas City, Mo. (7-9 grades). We had an openly-armed police detective patrolling the lunch room every day and a Vice-Principle who looked just like Arnold Scwartzenegger roaming the halls all day. If you got out of line you were paddled with a board or punched (for the worst offenders). I got paddled a few times :p but it didn't hurt me psychologically and my parents didn't sue the school. In fact, I got a second whipping when I got home. :D I hate zero tolerance policies and find the ban on pocketknives at school a lamebrain idea (but, then, I live in California where just about everything is banned anyway! :barf: )
 
Richard Sommer said:
As an example, my son got in trouble at school for a shoving match last year, not a fight, just two boys pushing each other. That got him a suspension, but worse than that, it was considered a fight and if anytime in the next 6 years in this school system he gets into a fight, he faces mandatory expulsion. It doesn’t matter whether he starts the fight or not, he is NOT supposed to defend himself, just take it until a teacher decides to stop it. Needless to say, if this happens, I told him to defend himself and we will take the consequences as they come. In this same school system a couple of 8th graders were caught with alcohol and cocaine in their lockers. They will get 3 days in school suspension, but no threat of expulsion. This makes sense???
Click to expand...

Being an educator in New York (upstate - not the city) I would like to make a quick comment on this one.

Your absolutely right. It doesn't make sense at all. I know that as a teacher I will NEVER tell a kid to use violence in a school. As a father however, I would not want my son to take a beating because he was told not to defend himself. As to the drug charges, that seems very odd. Seems like the policy should be reversed. Ours is far more stringent. In fact, with an illegal substance like cocaine, I think they are put out for the year immediately, but to be honest I would would have to check the policy...

As for knives in school - I think we will disagree here. Those days are gone and a new day has arrived where weapons simply cannot be allowed at all. Your son and my son may be responsible with a knife, but allowing them into the schools is an open door for problems. People do not want their kids to be in a school where other kids can have knives. You may trust YOUR child, but do you trust ALL of the kids in his school to have knives? Probably not. A policy can't pick and choose who gets to carry, so nobody does - plain and simple. I agree with this. Perhaps you do too, but the tone of your post would indicate otherwise.

Anyhow, good post. If you want to change the policies....run for the board!
:D
 
My son has run into the same problem at school. I told his principal that though I do not tolerate bullying, if my son has to defend himself then he has my complete support in doing so.

I too agree with everything you posted.
 
Interesting. Last nite I was reminicising with my girlfriend about the "way things used to be".

Remember when high schools had smoking areas? If you brought a signed permission slip from your parent you could smoke during break.

Now, I'm not saying this is right or wrong. What I am saying is there used to be a time where Parents decided how to raise their children.

How does this relate? Simple, We have lost control. We being the average American. The Powers have taken away our rights slowly but surely until the only thing we're allowed to decide if whether there should be an amendment to the state constitution concerning the treatment of pregnant pigs (Florida).

Have you ever noticed that issues of great concern are NEVER brought before the people for a vote? Health care reform. Wouldn't it be nice if it was brought up and the Nation was allowed to vote on how it should be. Abortion. How come we can't allow that to be voted on. Legalize Marijuana. How do you think the vote would go if allowed.

Yes, Our Leaders see us as a bunch of sheep that need to be led along told "What's good for us".

The most stupid laws are those that Protect us from Ourselves.
 
Some loose thoughts and comments:

When I was a kid we were expected to take a knife or a razor blade to school, how else could we sharpen pencils ?.

I believe that a lot of people think of knives basically as weapons, even in these forums.

I think kids should be allowed to take knives to school, a kid that I wouldn´t trust to carry a knife, I wouldn´t trust to carry a pencil either.

Kids (and everyone) shouldn´t start fights, but they should be able to defend themselves if they have to.

You are better off in the U.S. than in many other countries, here in Mexico sometimes the police will stop a public transportation bus, ask all men (women just stay in and wait) to step out, and search them for "weapons", there is no clear definition in the law about what a weapon is, a small SAK may be confiscated, something bigger may get you in trouble (I´ve been searched and was carrying my usual SAK and stockman but they found nothing, they don´t search too well).

The U.S. has become a great country in part because people are willing to fight for their rights and defend themselves.

A hundred sheep can be kept in line by one dog, to be a sheep and be cared for by a dog may seem like the way to live for some. But one dog cannot protect 100 sheep from a couple of wolves.
 
I think Don Luis brings up a good point. A lot of knife enthusiasts are guilty of promoting "knife as weapon" over "knife as tool".The whole "tactical" slant plays this up big time. Pull out a one handed "tactical" looking knife and note the reaction. Pull out a slipjoint stockman and note the reaction. Even if you are doing the same task with the knife, people are going to see it different. How many threads have you seen here about what is the best defensive folder or comments to that effect when discussing a particular knife. I think we are partially guilty of people seeing our knives as weapons over tools. That said, I do believe you should carry what you want. But non-knife people do see these things and in our reactionary society we need to be careful. We can't bitch too much about people calling our knives weapons if we portray them that way ourselves.
 
Bobwhite,

I definitely agree about considering knives as weapons. I haven’t posted on this subject, but I feel far to many manufacturers/makers market their knives as weapons. If you specifically sell your knives to the military, MAYBE this would be okay, but I still have my reservations. Out of all of our soldiers, how many have actually used their blades as weapons, extremely few, compared to all those that have used ordnance of some sort to dispatch the enemy. Just about anyone understands that a knife can be used as a last ditch weapon if needed, but so can a hammer, but the hammer industry doesn’t face an image problem. Why? Two reasons, first the media doesn’t portray them that way and marketing doesn’t sell them as such. I just don’t think knives should be marketed as such.

You are also correct that if one uses a SAK, fewer people will have a negative reaction than if one uses one of the current “tactical” blades. I find this very unfortunate, however; the simplicity and convenience of using a one hand opening and closing knife is something I would rather not give up because of image. I don’t think that a small Sebenza or anything similar should be viewed as threatening by anyone. There have been numerous occasions when I needed to cut something which one hand is busy holding and I don’t want to or can’t let go of it. Thanks.

Richard
 
As a kid growing up in the 60s and 70s in the US most of my school buddies had pocket knives(mine was either a barlow folder or a SAK) as part of what you carried in your pockets.At home we had our fishing poles,guns and fixed blade knives.These were just tools we grew up with and I can never remember there ever being a knife altercation in school fights.
My son is 14 now and just started high school!The week before school there was a meeting with the school officials and the parents of the new students of which one of the main topics of conversation was a zero tolerance for weapons and was mainly concerned with guns, knives and gang afiliation!
I feel the focus is more on the tools than the behavior of the students.
Why do we treat our children as stupid bad people who if they have these tools available will do the wrong thing! Yes some people will as will some children but I feel that telling a child that the knife or gun is wrong verses the person useing it is an oxymoron!I think this is more political bravo than anything.Hell,like a previouse post said give everybody who boards a plane a knife and the sky will be safer to travel!
My son has I think 6 knives starting with his first SAK to a 10" bowie.This is not counting his cooks knives as I am a chef and he has helped me with catering events since he was 5 years old.We also spend our time off in the outdoors so knives are just good tools for us and thats how we use them!
My son asked me why people are so paranoid about knives because it was the stone knife and ax tools of our ancestors which enabled us to become what we are now(smart ass kid,I love him) .How do you reply except that the world is full of stupid people who want to live in a box?
All I can say is stay out of the box if you desire freedom for you and your children!Peace,Doug.........................
 
I'll be the first to admit that I'm a little uncomfortable with the idea of a lot of the idiot kids I interact with carrying knives in schools even though I'd let my kid do it if it were legal. HOWEVER, I think the reason I'm uncomfortable with the idea of the other idiot kids carrying the knife is because our whole society has shifted away from an emphasis on personal responsibility. The kids aren't being taught how to handle themselves, the law will do it for them. WRONG!!! The law, or any rule, is simply words on paper, usually with some kind of enforcement person to come along and prescribe punishment to violators (violators = after the fact). We've come to a point where we've apparently stopped understanding that you have to teach children to want to be responsible and look out for themselves and others, and it's the parents and society that should be doing this, but instead, we keep teaching the message that "laws" and other people will take care of this for us. We take away freedom after freedom for the illusion of safety and comfort. As a society, we're so far down the toilet right now that we have to educate most parents as well as their children that freedom is not free. Freedom comes with responsibility and consequences of it's own. Let the kids have the knives but ALSO teach them the responsibility of that ownership and the consequences of failing to perform their responsibilities. I guarantee that in two more generations of our current societal trends, America will not be a truly free and democratic society. We will be a 'socialist' dictatorship run by industry and/or the government. Anyway, I digress.

We had knives when I was in school, and, GASP!!!!, we also had fights. We had idiots, braniacs, rich, poor, average middle america kids, black, white, asian, redneck, and potheads. My gosh, how did we survive having all those freedoms! I can't recall ever seeing a kid actually use a pocket knife in a fight. If you did, the system, and your parents, would come down on you like a ton of bricks for being irresponsible with a tool. Weapons? Get real! I've seen a kid slam a school desk down on another kid during a fight. That did a hell of a lot of damage. Did they pass a law or rule to bolt down all the desks? Of course not, they expelled the kid for beating the crap out of the other kid and had the sheriff go talk to him and his parents. I also heard that the kid's father had a round with his boy too. His behaviour was unacceptable, he misused the tools around him, he abused his freedoms, he was punished. Simple as that.

I'm not what I consider an overly intelligent person. I'm an average guy like most, with a family and lots of responsibility. There's a point to where I'm going with this. I'm amazed at how most of society believes that they are protected by laws and rules. Laws and rules are simply guides for behaviour in a group that have been agreed upon by the majority. They don't actually prevent or cause any action. That responsibility falls to the individual to have the fortitude to follow the law or guideline. We pass the law after law but fail to teach the core behaviours of responsibility that truly enforce that law within the society. IF I were the kind of person who wanted to harm others, abuse my freedoms, and act irresponsibly, NO ONE could stop me ahead of time. No law, no rule, no police force, no government, no one, could stop me from deciding to do something wrong and finding a way to do it. If I wanted to poison a city's water supply and wipe out a lot of it's population, and if I was determined and had the time, I'll bet, with my average intelligence, I could find a way to make it work. If I wanted maim or kill a teacher back when I was kid, it wouldn't have mattered whether or not I had a knife! Any odd thing laying around could be put to good use. If I wanted to destroy someone who cuts me off in traffic, I could find a way to make it happen. I would only face the consequences after the fact. Of course, I'd never do these awful things! It's wrong and I was raised and taught that a person should treat others with the respect that you expect in return, and that if you see anything wrong around you, you investigate and make it right. You cannot regulate the mind or intent, but you can teach people what is considered right and acceptable. We're keep passing laws against actions and tools without addressing the mindset behind those actions. Sheer stupidity! Responsibility, that's what we've lost as a society. Without it, we'll loose not only our knives, but in time, we'll loose everything.

I apologize for the rant but I think this is the greatest challenge that faces our nation today, and that most of the population does not recognize the danger that is inexorably creeping into our society.
 
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