I just got a meadowlark!

J

Jamesh Bond

Joined
Jan 14, 2007
Messages
1,760
I have been going crazy since I lost my Native a couple weeks ago, so Decided to try a Byrd Meadowlark. Its an ugly SOB, but seems very solid and well made. I can't believe this was only 25 bucks. All the knives at the store in the 30 to 60 dollar range were 420j2, 420 hc, aus-4, and other crap.

Thanks for all the good posts about Byrd. When I first heard of the line, I was skeptical (why not?). They were ugly and cheap looking, so I figured that they were another consumer- minded add- on to another great company. But finally, after doing more research, losing my Spyder, and being on a now very limited budget, I saw one at the mall and made up my mind to check it out. I even got the 8cr13mov zzzpprrt durhka durka steel, not the 440c. So far, I'm already impressed, and who knows, maybe I can even get past the ugliness. . . Maybe. Some of it DOES go away when I hold it.. . .

We'll see how this durhka durka steel performs. It seems pretty good from what I've heard and from the steel charts I checked out. I'm glad I didn't get the 440c! I've used it and it's not bad, but now I get to try something new!

So thanks to all you Byrd lovers who found me a new knife on a budget!
 
Jamesh Bond said:
I even got the 8cr13mov zzzpprrt durhka durka steel, not the 440c.

...

We'll see how this durhka durka steel performs. It seems pretty good from what I've heard and from the steel charts I checked out. I'm glad I didn't get the 440c! I've used it and it's not bad, but now I get to try something new!
Click to expand...

You might want to read this topic with regards to 8Cr13MoV vs. 440C :rolleyes:

440C is a very nice stainless blade steel and 420HC shouldn't be too bad either (it hardly seems fair that you lump these together with AUS4 and even 420J2 :barf: ).
 
I lumped 420HC with the others because it is another low carbon steel comparable to aus-4 and and a notch above 420j2. These are used in cheap knives all the time. . . for a reason.

Did you even read what came after the phrase you underlined?
"I've used it and it's not bad, but now I get to try something new!"

I'm not seeing any comparison between 440c and the others. What I am seeing is an enthusiasm over a new knife with a new steel I've never used before.

You missed the point of my post.
 
Congratulations on the new Meadowlark. I first purchased one about two years ago and was very pleased with the ergonomics although I wasn't as happy about the slippery steel handles. Now that they've come out with a FRN version with nested steel liners, as well as a G10 version, there is a Meadowlark for everyone who wants one.

FYI:

The 440C byrds are the same as the "8 etc..." byrds. The blade steel in them is the same. The only difference is the the 440C indicates early production. After Spyderco realized that the Chinese version wasn't the same as what is commonly accepted in the industry as 440C, they changed the stamping, labeling and naming from 440C to 8Cr13MoV. Same steel, just a different lable.
 
Thanks ghostrider!

I already love this knife. Best 25 bucks I ever spent. I agree that the stainless is slippery-- and heavy! But it is really solid, which is cool. Mine has absolutely zero play!

I am curious, where did you get your information about the labeling of 440c and 8cr13mov?
The two steels are similar, but have significantly different compositions. I haven't had my Lark long, but already notice a difference from 440c.

If you haven't seen this already, scroll down till you get to the stainless steels.
www.cutleryscience.com/reviews/blade_materials.html
 
Jamesh Bond said:
...

I am curious, where did you get your information about the labeling of 440c and 8cr13mov?...]
Click to expand...
That came directly from Sal Glesser, and can be found on either these forums or on the Spyderco factory forum. It's old information. If I find time I'll try to find a link.
 
Found it!

sal said:
I'll try to make some sense of it.

Hi JDEE. They didn't feel that hard to me either when I put them on the rods. We Rc'd them in-house and they were running 60/61. I know 440C is brittle at 61. These don't seem brittle. We're still getting feedback.

The steel in the byrds is 8Cr13MoV.

When we first began designing the byrd line and working with the makers, we asked the makers what was the best steel available in China. They said 440C. We requested 440C.

As is my anal retentive, obsessive-compulsive nature, I'm always testing. On the first run, the edge retension was quite good, lock strength was heavy duty range, lock reliability was excellent. Then I analyzed the steel in the first run. Chemistry didn't match 440C. "Something about Chinese 440C".

We communicated with the foundry. Their analysis matched ours. I said we cannot call this 440C in the USA if it is not the same chemistry as 440C in the USA. The name of the steel in China is 8Cr13MoV. .8 Carbon, 13 Chrome, less than 1. moly with vanadium.

It is a good steel and tests in a range with Aichi's AUS-8.

byrd models are made from and will be marked 8Cr13MoV.

It is interesting to note that 95% of all knives sold are sold to people that don't know one steel is different from another. Here on this forum we seem to have many that do. I'm impressed.

I don't think you will find a better quality $25-$30 knife.

sal
Click to expand...
http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14579
 
Jamesh Bond said:
I lumped 420HC with the others because it is another low carbon steel comparable to aus-4 and and a notch above 420j2. These are used in cheap knives all the time. . . for a reason.
Click to expand...

Apparently carbon isn't everything, otherwise 420HC would be yet another 55- HRC steel but it is on par with 440C though (in upper 50s) - that's what I meant to say in my previous post when I mentioned lumping AUS4 and 420J2 POS together with 420HC :) IIRC Buck uses 420HC in many knives and it works very well for them.

Did you even read what came after the phrase you underlined?
"I've used it and it's not bad, but now I get to try something new!"

I'm not seeing any comparison between 440c and the others. What I am seeing is an enthusiasm over a new knife with a new steel I've never used before.
Click to expand...

Skip first few posts of that thread; Sal stated (further down) that steel used in Byrd line performs pretty much the same as 440C and that they (Spyderco) were at first assured that the steel they were provided with was actually 440C.

In other words: while you'd be getting a great new extremely reasonably priced knife (happy Byrd owner speaking here ;) ) it wouldn't be all that different from what you are already used to, and I imagine wouldn't be exactly what you had in mind when stating that you want to try something new. It's no hyped-up wondersteel but it does its job well ... just like 440C does.
 
Sorry ghostrider, It sounded like you were telling me that 8Cr13MoV is the same thing as 440c. Now that I read Sal's post and re- read yours, I understand what you really meant. Thanks for finding that thread.

Faramir, just to clarify, when I said this:
"I'm not seeing any comparison between 440c and the others. What I am seeing is an enthusiasm over a new knife with a new steel I've never used before."
I was referring to my first post, pointing out the fact that I hadn't lumped 440c with the other steels. All I said about 440c was that I was glad I got 8Cr13MoV instead. I had known before I bought the knife that 8Cr13MoV was not 440c, but didn't consider it a supersteel. Just something different. Also, I compared 420HC to the other bcause I have used it and personally don't care for it.
BTW, Sal says that 8Cr13MoV tests like aus-8, not 440c. The

This has been a confusing thread. Point is, I got a new knife with a steel I haven't tried before, and this makes me happy.:)
 
Jamesh Bond said:
Sorry ghostrider, It sounded like you were telling me that 8Cr13MoV is the same thing as 440c. Now that I read Sal's post and re- read yours, I understand what you really meant. Thanks for finding that thread.

Faramir, just to clarify, when I said this:
"I'm not seeing any comparison between 440c and the others. What I am seeing is an enthusiasm over a new knife with a new steel I've never used before."
I was referring to my first post, pointing out the fact that I hadn't lumped 440c with the other steels. All I said about 440c was that I was glad I got 8Cr13MoV instead. I had known before I bought the knife that 8Cr13MoV was not 440c, but didn't consider it a supersteel. Just something different. Also, I compared 420HC to the other bcause I have used it and personally don't care for it.
BTW, Sal says that 8Cr13MoV tests like aus-8, not 440c. The

This has been a confusing thread. Point is, I got a new knife with a steel I haven't tried before, and this makes me happy.:)
Click to expand...
No problem about the mix-up. I figured you'd get it once you read Sal's post.

Your right about a new knife with new steel. It's like nothing I've used. It's pretty hard at 62 HRC. Holds an edge fairly well, and strops up nicely on cardboard. It isn't the easiest to sharpen at that hardness, but it's only $30, and it holds the edge well enough. I've never used Spyderco's AUS-8, but it's nothing like any of the knives I have in AUS-8. It doesn't sharpen as easy but hold an edge better.

The Meadowlark is a nice little knife in it's own right. Here are my opinions on them:

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21728

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13932
 
As a side note, I personally have always found aus 8 a hassle to sharpen. It doesn't take a crisp edge very easily and is stubbornly reluctant let go of its burrs. Even light touchup swipes seem to raise a burr! And it doesn't hold an edge worth a damn in proportion to how long it takes to sharpen!
Agreements? Disagreements? Advice?

It is possible that the aus 8 in my experiences wasn't hardened to the correct RC range for it. Inconsistent hardening is not an entirely nonexistent issue with production knives.
 
I've never minded a well done AUS8 blade. But note the qualifier "well done," as in good heat treat, good hardness, etc.
 
I had an old Cold Steel medium tanto Voyager (3" blade) that was very dull on the secondary edge towards the tip, but I decided to sharpen the whole edge. I found the AUS8 on that particular knife felt soft and would not sharpen up to my standards. OTOH, I've had a Delica 1 and combo-edge Endura 1 both of AUS8 and they resharpened up quite well, esp. the Endura. I think Cold Steel's AUS8 is about 57 rc and Spyderco's was around 58-59.
However, I have found a large Cold Steel clip point Voyager resharpened easily enough. Could also have to do with the superior edge geometry it had over the medium tanto Voyager.
Jim
 
Jamesh Bond said:
As a side note, I personally have always found aus 8 a hassle to sharpen. It doesn't take a crisp edge very easily and is stubbornly reluctant let go of its burrs. Even light touchup swipes seem to raise a burr! And it doesn't hold an edge worth a damn in proportion to how long it takes to sharpen!
Agreements? Disagreements? Advice?

It is possible that the aus 8 in my experiences wasn't hardened to the correct RC range for it. Inconsistent hardening is not an entirely nonexistent issue with production knives.
Click to expand...

I have a Dragonfly, with AUS-8 , which I hate. The steel, not the knife. I have that problem with AUS-8, not as bad as my Jester, I can't get a quality edge on it worth a s***. I've tried everything from my Sharpmaker, to my Lansky, even tried a bit of free hand, but still nothing. The Jester uses AUS-6. Thank god for the VG-10 Ladybug. :cool:
 
That's odd. My Aus-8 Dragonfly is easy to sharpen and holds a decent edge.

-Blair
 
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