I need help./Advice?

oso_blanco

oso_blanco

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Apr 9, 2010
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I need help.
The situation
2/9/12 I get an inquiry about a knife listed in this sales thread, The RMD LE 166

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/924672-WTS-Scrapyard-and-SwampRat-Knives

2/10/12 another inq. About condition and the sheath spec. (and an attch. doc. I missed.)
2/10/12 am I answered telling him the knife was as I got it new from SWKC, as new, and the sheath was made for it by an unknown BF vendor.
2/10/12 He asked if he was 1st in line. And my PP add.
2/10/12 I indicated he was, and sent my PPinfo
2/10/12 I received payment, and packaged it so I could take it directly to the PO (w/ other items)
I returned from the PO to find a reminder about the ? I had missed. “did it have the “tactical cardboard?” Though it was not in the sales desc. I had bought the knife new, and sure enough I found it, said I would ship it under separate cover. Which I did 2/13/12.

This is not about a cardboard sheath.

And as completely unrelated, the same person sent me $500+US by mistake. I refunded the $$, searched out the other party, A BF member, and notified both parties. They were appreciative. And the buyer of the RMDxLE166 asked for a pos feedback on our transaction.

Now the crux of the matter.
12/23/12 I receive an email that the knife received was rusty, blade and handle.
I was shocked. This was not what I sent. But what can I do. I offered “I cannot explain this. It was as I said when i sent it. All I can say is return the knife, and I will refund your monies, and the return shipping. J.”
12/23/12 response was “but this knife is not in usa now.”
12/23/12 I asked “Can you explain this to me? ‘Not in usa?’ Two days ago, when I returned money to you not due me, you sent thanks, and asked: thanks and can you leave me a feedback of RMDLE? with no mention of a problem.”
12/23/12 Response:actually im not in th us, i let my friend located in fremont help me recived your package and send it to me. so 2 weeks ago. my friend told me he got the package, but i recived it actually at yesterday. i found the knife has rust on the blade and the handle.

12/23/12 I asked for pix

What should I do?
 
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I smell a rat. I wouldn't do anything until he sent pics of the knife showing the rust.
 
Tell the Buyer to Return the knife, upon receipt and verification it's as shipped refund the purchase price.

If you didn't describe it accurately you should give the guy a 100% Refund.

If the Buyer is just unhappy or has Buyers Remorse- he should pay shipping both ways.


Use the PayPal Refund option so there's no fees.
 
Always a danger signal, an intermediary shipper, and you weren't even told this was the case. Where exactly is the knife, what kind of rust, could it have been opened on route and mishandled, exposed to moisture? Definitely need pictures. Definitely needs to return the knife before he gets a refund.

Also, unless this is a high-end custom, which it is not, rust is a very temporary problem.
 
Something is fishy here. I'd demand the knife back in my possession before taking any further action. The fact that it left the US is a bit troubling as quite a few hands may have touched it by this point.
 
I think you made a wise choice bringing this to GB&U, so the community can weigh in on this matter. I would invite the buyer to join in and get his camera out, no harm in that IMO, if everyone's on the up and up. Since it went to another party you were not aware of, we can't possibly know what that party did with the knife especially with the timeframe involved. If the friend opened the package, there should be evidence of that and the buyer should know. Did the friend let the package get wet, ect? Only the buyer can answer these question's. Did you have the knife oiled prior to sending? I would not do anything until he join's the conversation, to many unknown's here.
 
I too smell a rat, a very fishy rat. Please keep us posted and good luck! Definitly no re-funds until you have it back.
 
ooitzoo said:
Something is fishy here. I'd demand the knife back in my possession before taking any further action. The fact that it left the US is a bit troubling as quite a few hands may have touched it by this point.
Click to expand...
Horsewright said:
I too smell a rat, a very fishy rat. Please keep us posted and good luck! Definitly no re-funds until you have it back.
Click to expand...

I smelled a rat, ooitzoo smelled something fishy, and Horsewright smells a fishy rat, seems we have a pattern here. ;) They're both right, don't even consider parting with your $$$ until the knife is back in your hands.
 
One thing to be clear about here is that this may well be a mis-communication (easily between the other side and his intermediary.) That said, you can easily make the argument that your responsibility ended when you got the goods to this intermediary (I am assuming that's where you sent it.) This is all assuming that you didn't know that it'd be an intermediary but rather the final address.

The problem with these kinds of trades is that the item has gone thru so many more hands than it would otherwise that its hard to figure out who's to blame. I mean, who's to say that the intermediary didn't switch knives or took it out camping with him before sending it out of country or just plain spilled water on it? This shouldn't be read as an accusation but rather a "what if". I don't see how the seller can be held accountable for trade terms that he never agreed to.

Then again, we are only getting one side of the story here. It'd be nice to know how the other side sees this.
 
I also have a concern regarding the $500 overpayment which has already been refunded. Consider this. If the $500 overpaid was bad $$$ to start with such as stolen credit card number, closed account etc it could take some time to discover this. Meanwhile real actual $$$s have been refunded. Ouch. I have my fingers crossed. I smell a rat, something fishy and a fishy rat! Hope this is not the case. Hope I'm just being overly suspiscious.
 
This isn't going to end well. I am tip-toeing out of here...

Wow.

Coop
 
Forgetting everything but the knife,
How long after it was signed for at the PP provided address was the complaint made? The reason I ask is that when I sell a knife here I give 3 days, 72 hours, after delivery to review your knife and return it for a refund if you are not happy, for any reason (assuming it is still in as-delivered condition). If it took longer than that for the buyer to complain, that would be beyond his window of opportunity and he would be SOL.

Second, if the buyer takes it upon himself to use an intermediary, without my knowledge or permission, to forward the knife overseas (or anywhere else for that matter), that's on him. He should have had the intermediary insure the fitness of the item before passing it along. Again, SOL.

Your buyer, as far as I am concerned, is the one with the problem, not you. IF, and that's a big if, the knife was exposed to a spill of some kind before arriving to its original destination that caused the blade to rust, and you had been informed in a responsible amount of time, you could have made a claim against the company you used to ship it. I seriously doubt you would have any luck with that now based on the actions of your buyer.

Be sure you can document the delivery to the correct address, and show that the buyer admits that the knife was then shipped again to a different address before any complaint was made. Hopefully that will square you with PP if he files a claim. Not sure what effect the overpayment and partial refund would have on a claim against you with PP, you may want to preemptively contact PP for some advice.

Good luck.
 
Yet another reason (ultimately), why so many people refuse outright to ship things internationally. What a disaster.
 
Horsewright said:
I also have a concern regarding the $500 overpayment which has already been refunded. Consider this. If the $500 overpaid was bad $$$ to start with such as stolen credit card number, closed account etc it could take some time to discover this. Meanwhile real actual $$$s have been refunded. Ouch. I have my fingers crossed. I smell a rat, something fishy and a fishy rat! Hope this is not the case. Hope I'm just being overly suspiscious.
Click to expand...

If he used the refund option to give that $500 back, he SHOULD be OK there. I had a similar situation and paypal said I wouldn't have any problem since it was a case of no harm, no foul with funds returned. I'd call them anyway, just to be sure of that.

OP, have you heard anything else?
 
I wonder what has happened with this deal. The buyer was logged in yesterday?

I was hesitant to post this before however, it's still on my mind so, for the sake of discussion here goes. When ones say's........ I will take it......... seem's like the "Inquiries" would end right there, as you have committed, regardless of any after thought's you may have. Should a "Inquiry", give someone....... first in line consideration?

To say I will take it............ then make inquiries.......... that seem's to be hesitation and uncertainty in my mind, and not fair to the other buyer that wanted the knife and a good reason to reserve the right not to sell to someone, if something does not feel right.

What made me think of this was another thread discussing buyer's that back out after saying....... I will take it....... One has to wonder...... in these cases....... were there Inquiries made after the commitment to buy? I had not given any thought to that angle until this thread popped up. It might be something to look for when selling and I will keep this thread in mind when I sell from now on. It may or may not be a warning sign. It has not happened to me on this site however, has certainly happened on Ebay and had problem's from those buyer's in a couple instances. Perhap's I am over thinking this?
 
Super X, you make some good points, although not necessarily related to the OP's problem. As a buyer I've seen that happen, and I think that's the reason a lot of us will call Seconds on a knife we'd like to have. I've gotten a few because the person who posted their "I'll take it" first wasn't really ready to take it for what ever reason. I do know in one instance it was exactly like you're talking about here, the person wanted to be first in line but wasn't sure. My "I'll take it" was unconditional and the seller sold to me.
 
I'm sorry, to those who might have been following this thread, for not following up sooner. 'Though I do not believe I was at fault, I made a partial $$ restitution to save my good name(?). I recieved pictures showing the blade after it had been scrubbed with oil. There were tiny black oxidation marks in satin finish, that were not there when I shipped it. Part of our agreement is that we would not denigrate each other in the forum feedback. I would do things differently if I had a do-over. Thanks to those that supported me, and thanks to all who weighed in on either side. oso_blanco
 
Thanks for looking for a solution instead of an argument. These situations can get uncomfortable. As far as I'm concerned, your name is good.
 
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