I need help - Lansky....

myright

myright

Gold Member
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
5,156
Alright fellas

I got the Lansky Diamond kit. I reprofiled my BM Mini-Grip at 30 degrees.

I used the following:

All Diamond
Extra Coarse
Coarse
Medium
Fine

It's utility sharp, but I can't get it to the point where it'll shave hair or even cut paper. The edge looks to be a bit jagged, but I'm not sure really. I need to get it under a magnifying glass. I just know that I spent A LOT of time trying to sharpen that sucker and I can't get it sharp.

I know this system is VERY capable of producing a very sharp edge, I just can't get it to work for me.

What am I doing wrong.
 
myright said:
Alright fellas

I got the Lansky Diamond kit. I reprofiled my BM Mini-Grip at 30 degrees.

I used the following:

All Diamond
Extra Coarse
Coarse
Medium
Fine

It's utility sharp, but I can't get it to the point where it'll shave hair or even cut paper. The edge looks to be a bit jagged, but I'm not sure really. I need to get it under a magnifying glass. I just know that I spent A LOT of time trying to sharpen that sucker and I can't get it sharp.

I know this system is VERY capable of producing a very sharp edge, I just can't get it to work for me.

What am I doing wrong.
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Try the sharpie method to see if you are hitting the very edge, use a permanent marker to mark the edge and use the stone at 30degrees to check if it is scratching off the ink, use the magnifying glass the check if all the ink is removed.
 
I tried that, but I guess I'll have to look and see if I'm getting the very edge. The rest of the marker was removed during the sharpening and I guess I just assumed I was getting the tip. I feel fairly confident that I am getting the tip though.
 
myright said:
I tried that, but I guess I'll have to look and see if I'm getting the very edge. The rest of the marker was removed during the sharpening and I guess I just assumed I was getting the tip. I feel fairly confident that I am getting the tip though.
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How many strokes are you doing?? do you alternate strokes near the end to remove the burr?
 
The sharpie is a good way to see where you are contacting the bevel but after that the big question is are you getting a burr with the coarsest stone before moving on to the finer ones and then getting a burr with each successive finer stone?

Sharpening is removing material. The burr is the key to determining when you have sharpened until the two edges meet. It doesn't matter how many strokes you are using, although that may be an indication of a problem. Too few strokes and maybe you gave up too fast. Too many and you need a coarser stone or there is another problem. If you don't get a burr you need to figure out the problem and continue until you get a burr.

The reason you use the sharpie is to determine if you are hitting the existing angles. If you are just hitting the shoulder of the bevel you are trying to create a new angle and it will take a lot longer to remove all that metal.

Changing the angle is one form of reprofiling. That is good if that is what you want to do but it will take a lot longer then hitting and sharpening the existing angles.

The Lansky is a great way to hold consistent angles. The problem is you are stuck with 4 set angles on a Lansky (one for each hole in the guide) which are approximately (30°, 25°, 20°, & 17°) depending on manufacturing tolerance and how worn your stones are. Those are good angles for many knives, but you hope one of these angles matches your knife and hope you don't have to change the angle much especially on a thick edged or large knife. If you do have to reprofile the knife to match the Lansky then it is a lot of work the first time but after that a lot less.

Have you read this? I suggest reading this and wraping yourself around it until you understand it completely. Read section four, Sharpening Basics, about the burr. A quote from Chad Ward
First and most foremost is the burr. The burr is your friend.
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It also covers it all, the principles, technique, etc with pictures, and mentions most of the systems like the Lansky.

Hope that helps.

Gary
 
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I have the regular Lansky and this is what I find works for me. First, get some Bar Keeper's friend and clean stones after or before every use. Next, the coarse stone is the one I use the most. It is needed to reprofile the whole edge, both sides. I want to emphasize this. It takes a long time on the coarse stones. Make sure you work up a burr. I actually go up and down to save time while on the coarse. You also need to make sure that the guide bars are all on the same elevation. I set them all the way down. I took out the thumb screws and found some hex, so it now has a longer stroke. Just for rule of thumb. 80% of your time on coarsest stone to reprofile. 20% is working your way down to the finest stone. Once you have removed your scratches from the previous stone, and a burr is again worked up, move down to the next one finer stone. Once you have finished the finest stone (I use the 20 degree setting), I then take the finest stone and set it at 30 degrees and hone a micro bevel. This only requires a light touch. Make sure you feel a burr, do not change stone till this happens. If you cannot work up a burr, clean the metal off the stones, it is not cutting the edge. Send me a pm with your phone # and I would be happy to explain more. Good luck, and do not forget to have fun.
 
Thank you all very much for your help. I'll play around a bit more and see what I can come up with. If I can't do much better given the help here I'll reach out to you, CJ.

Thanks again.
 
I use the same guide rod for all the stones. My guide rods are not all true, I found that using one rod helps me get a more consistent edge.
 
I want to clarify my last few sentences, do not work up a burr on the micro bevel. My thoughts were not congruous with my writing. It only requires a light touch and a few passes on the micro bevel honing stage.
 
As a longtime regular (not diamond) Lansky user, I agree with cj65's comments. I'll try to break down the method that's worked for me into steps, sorry if repeats stuff covered in other posts.

1- Reprofile (thin) the edge.

Using the coarsest stone at the lowest practicable angle, I work up a burr all along one side of the edge, flip and work a burr all along the other side. On thin knives, the stone will bump on the plastic tightening knob, so I use the next one up on them. I might have to move the clamp once or even twice along the edge on each side on longer knives in order to sharpen the whole edge.

2- Polish the edge.

I polish each side with consecutively finer stones to the point where the coarser stone's scratch marks are removed and the old burr is gone and a new one formed on the opposite side. If I'm doing this correctly, the burr will get finer and finer with each stone, to the point where it's almost completely gone by the time I finish with the finest stone. This only takes a few strokes per stone per side, but the number of strokes will vary with the type of steel, so I don't have a set number of strokes per side. I wash the knife and clamp between each stone so the finer stones aren't contaminated with rougher grit.

3- Microbevel.

I choose an angle, usually the next-thickest from the one where I reprofiled, but two higher on cheap kitchen knives that were reprofiled at the lowest angle. Using a -very light- touch with the finest stone, I give it a stroke on whichever side still has a bit of a burr, test for a burr with my fingernail, and repeat until the burr is completely gone, then flip and do the other side.

On general grounds, I think it's a good rule to always keep your strokes as light as possible.

The Lansky won't give me a real braggin' edge -I freehand on Japanese waterstones for that- but it's a cool gadget to get a good working edge on my "using knives" while watching TV or chatting, since it doesn't require the total focus I need for freehand.
 
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I re-profiled my bm-710 ats34 with the lansky, it took 6 hours to get a sharp hair popping 20 degree bevel. could probably go faster with more experience but im happy with the results. The edge should shave after the Medium stone or its not time to switch stones yet.

My biggest problem has been the knife coming out of the clamp, and the stones at 17 deg. hit the edge of the clamp.
 
m6894 said:
I re-profiled my bm-710 ats34 with the lansky, it took 6 hours to get a sharp hair popping 20 degree bevel. could probably go faster with more experience but im happy with the results. The edge should shave after the Medium stone or its not time to switch stones yet.

My biggest problem has been the knife coming out of the clamp, and the stones at 17 deg. hit the edge of the clamp.
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I have yet to use the 17 degree angle, it hits the knob of the clamp set screw. I used to have the problem with the knife coming out of the clamp. Catching a sharp knife is never cool. I use masking tape now on the spine as recommended by another forumite. It really will secure the blade. I also sprung for the sharpening pedestal. It is nice to keep my hands free.

I am glad I learned this way, to raise a burr, to keep the stones clean, and profile edge geometry. I have now purchased the paper wheels, and will be rigging my bench grinder this week.
 
Thanks fellas - I'm still not at shaving sharp but I am getting closer. I think I still need a little practice getting a feel for the burr. The edges I'm getting are very capable and cut well, I just want to be able to take it to the next level.

How obvious is the burr when feeling it?

Hey CJ - I'm going to start using masking tape as well. I've got the pedestal and it makes a HUGE difference, IMO.
 
It sounds like good advice from CJ.

myright said:
......................

How obvious is the burr when feeling it?

...................................
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The burr should be pretty obvious with the coarser stones and with most steel. When you get a burr it should appear on the opposite side to the one where you were sharpening last. You should be able to feel it with the pad of your thumb or your fingernail when run form the side of the blade up the bevel and off the edge (not into the edge). You should be able to see it as well. Look at the edge at different angles in a good light. I don't think you have gotten one yet or you would know it (or at least not gotten one the full length of the edge). Don't go on to finer stones until the burr has formed well along the full length of the edge. If you are not sure if you got one yet continue on one side until you are sure. When you switch sides the burr is reduced or removed almost immediately with the first stroke.

It may be a bit distracting to talk about not getting a burr when adding a micro bevel. A micro bevel is something you form at the end of the process after the basic edge is sharp. Typically, you add a micro bevel to remove all remaining burrs. You can also reprofile and relieve the shoulder without getting a burr but you still get one when you sharpen the cutting edge with most steels. These are all advanced techniques which are above and beyond the basic sharpening which involves forming a burr as CJ noted.

Get a burr on each side with the coarse stone before you move on. After that what ever you do you will have at least have had the bevels on each side come together at the edge once. Until you do this you are just thinning the edge and it will feel sharper as it gets thinner but you wont have experienced sharp yet.

Have you tried the Sharpie? When you mark the edge with a Sharpie is your sharpening removing the mark all the way to the edge with the angle you are using?

If the sharpening angle you are using is not touching the bevel all the way to the edge it is going to take a lot longer then if it was. Still this technique will give you some information as to what is going on.

Unfortunately you can't fine tune the sharpening angle to match your existing one because you are limited to the 4 angles supplied with the tool (I think) *. You have to pick one close, or the one you want and reprofile the bevel on your blade to match the Lansky. If you switch to the next higher hole (angle) sharpening will go a lot faster, but that may yield a more obtuse angle then you want to end up with.

Hope that helps,
Gary


* Note: Someone (CJ) step in and correct my if I am wrong. I only had a Lansky for a short while and switched to an EdgePro. If I remember correctly you only have the four angles and no fine tuning adjustment. If you can fine tune the angle by moving the guide up and down this is probably what you need to do to match your existing angle. or use the same technique to make a micro bevel without such a big jump as it is to the next hole. A micro bevel sure will clean up and finish what you have been doing in a hurry.
 
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Test for a burr by running your fingernail across the edge, if the burr is there you'll feel it catch your fingernail.

If you aren't getting a shaving edge I think you probably haven't hit the edge yet. Keep going, reprofiling can take a surprisingly long time. On the plus side, once that's done you can just sharpen the microbevel each time you need to resharpen the knife, and that only takes a few seconds.

EDIT: Gary beat me to it I guess.
 
I like to run the burr side across the face of my finger nail. It usually will catch and scrape the surface of my nail. If not, using the edge of your fingernail and feeling for that catch. Make sure you do it from tip to tang.

What is so great about sharpening? Sharpness is infinite, you can always do better. It is a heroin addiction. Hi my name is CJ, and I am a sharpaholic. Everything is gonna be alright. There is much worse in the way of vices.
 
Great advice again fellas. It sounds like I am not getting a burr then. I hadn't even thought about using my fingernail to feel it, I was just using the pad of my finger and "thought" I was raising a burr.

I may have some time tonight to play a bit more so hopefully I'll be able to report some good news later.

Thanks again.
 
You might want to invest in the ultra fine and the super sapphire stones.

I have the GATCO. It is similar to the Lansky. I added the extra fine and ultimate finishing hones. The refine the edge after I finish with the standard stones.
 
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