I need some historical help

Joined
Nov 27, 1999
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I'm doing some research on the battle of Kings Mountain. I have started a French style plug bayonet but after reading this passage, I don't think it will be the right style:

"His forces had increased to upwards ofmen. On his march to this place, he had furnished arms to such of his new recruits as were without. The greater part of them had rifles but to a part of them he had them to fix a large knife they usually carried, made small enough at the end for two inches or more of the handle to slip into the muzzle of the rifle, so that it might occasionally used as a bayonet."

Anyone have any ideas about what it should look like?

On another note, I saw the Alamo last night. I just have to make a Bowie like that. Does anyone know who the maker is and what the specs may be. To quote a phrase everyone here hates.....Now that's a knife! :barf:
 
he had them to fix a large knife they usually carried, made small enough at the end for two inches or more of the handle

Don - sounds like them Mountain boys filed/whittled down the handle of their regular belt knives to fit inside the barrel rather than using regular plug bayonets.

Blade style? Any of the typical trade blades or what we now know as a rifleman's knife. For a period correct rifleman's knife blade style look at the GR Clark blade or the one excavated at Ft. Ticonderoga.

Here's one of our Frontier Shear Steel blades based on the Ft Ti find-
large-blade.jpg

Length-9 1/2" width about-1 3/8", 3/4 length stick tang

The GR Clark knife had a blade similar to a the French Trade blades and measures anout 6 /34" IIRC. Like most of the trade blade it had a half length tang, full width tang
 
Just do a computer search on 'plug bayonet' you'll find lots of photos.
 
THANK YOU CHUCK, :) :) :) :)

Mete, I have 10 or 12 books full of pictures of plug bayonets and 3 originals. The problem here is it doesn't appear they are using real plug bayonets. As chuck said, they were making their hunting knives fit the barrel!
 
Sounds that way to me Don and that gives you LOTS of options.
(of course whenever you start talking period correct - you'll also get those AR types who will tell you that pattern A was ONLY carried by the guys from some particular place and ONLY during the winter of '77 :rolleyes: :footinmou :rolleyes: )
 
Rifles were not usually equiped with bayonets during the US Revolutionary war. They were also slow to load, which frustrated our military command quite a bit. The men were often encourage to use a military musket equiped with a socket-type bayonet instead of rifles, since the rifles left them vulnerable to bayonet charges. George Washington went so far as to suggest that riflemen be equiped with spears and pikes.

Perhaps, some of the riflemen at Kings Mountain had improvised some crude plug bayonets. But, these would never have been official issue.

n2s
 
As a point of interest - Kings Mountain was one of the few Rev War battles where riflemen faced riflemen.
On the British side was Major Patrick Ferguson, who had developed one of the finest breechloading flintlock rifles. Major Ferguson led his "experimental" unit of British Riflemen (IIRC - the first and last unit of riflemen used by the Brits until the mid 1800's) against the Continental forces of which there was a large group of backwoodsmen armed with American Long Rifles.
The Brits lost the battle due in large part to the efforts of those backwoodsmen riflemen and Major Ferguson lost his life for sure to those riflemen who perhaps for the first time, showed the world the benefits of well aimed rifle fire.
 
Wow, guess I need to do some more reading. I'd always gotten the impression that the ferguson rifle was never officially adopted for military use. I thought he made some and was still trying to get it accepted when he was killed in that battle.

I got the same impression on the bayonets, figuring it was a jury rigged plug bayonet. Thought maybe if I did some reading on that battle though I might find some other references.
You might post your question in the blackpowder forum of www.thehighroad.org , there's a few guys who are really up on historical accounts and might have some references that could help.
 
Re: Major Ferguson's experimental unit of Rifleman
At the turn of 1775-6, Ferguson was back in Scotland. In April, he went to London to try to interest Lord Townshend in his rifle design. He eventually succeeded, and by May was at the Tower of London, supervising the making of trial models and taking part in tests before leading generals and dignitaries. The trial on 1 June received full coverage in the Annual Register. On 4 July, while the Rebel Continental Congress voted for independence and sent its declaration for publication, Ferguson was in Birmingham supervising the manufacture of the first 100 Ferguson Rifles made for military service. Ferguson presented the King with sketches and a description of the rifle. Via Major Cuyler, Howe's ADC, he received the General's backing, and petitioned the King to command an experimental rifle corps in the Colonies. The rifle patent was approved on 2 December 1776, and he also received private orders from individual officers and the East India Company for rifles. These helped his finances: he had got into debt through paying for the early models and trials from his own Captain's pay, and had borrowed money from relatives to pay for the patent. He was already working on a small field-gun. In January 1777 he received permission from Townshend and General Harvey to train 200 recruits at Chatham for his experimental corps. However, with news of defeats at Trenton and Princeton, he was ordered to make ready more quickly, with only 100 men. He officially received his command on 6 March. His instructions were that at the end of one campaign, he and his men were to be returned to their original regiments, unless Howe specified otherwise. In March 1777, Ferguson and his corps sailed on the Christopher to New York, where they arrived on 26 May. The experimental field piece blew up in its first test, having been sent out with the wrong size of ammunition. However, the corps - uniformed in the green cloth which had been sent out with them - saw some action in New Jersey. They took part in the expedition to the Chesapeake, where Howe, a light infantry enthusiast, was impressed with them. He assured Ferguson that he intended to expand the rifle corps. Unfortunately, events at Brandywine on 11 September 1777 ended these prospects. Ferguson's Corps performed well in the battle, fighting alongside the Queen's Rangers, under James Wemyss. Ferguson had the chance to pick off a important-looking Rebel officer, but declined to do so for reasons of honour. He was later told in hospital that the officer may have been Washington, but this cannot be proven with certainty. (Knowing the sense of humour some medics have, it may have been a wind-up...) Ferguson, at any rate, believed it was, and wrote, "I am not Sorry that I did not know all the time who it was". There were graver matters on his mind. Moments after the alleged encounter with Washington, a musket ball shattered Ferguson's right elbow-joint. He spent the winter in Philadelphia, under threat of amputation. He endured numerous unanaesthetised operations to remove bone splinters which repeatedly broke open his wounds. In November, he also received news of his father's death in June. Yet in letters home, he bravely made jokes about his operations.

Here's a link to the article on the battle of King's Mountain from which Peter got the above quote -
http://www.ls.net/~newriver/misc/kingsmt1.htm

For some of the best 18th/19th century online info on black powder rifles check out:
http://www.americanlongrifles.com/american-longrifles-BBS-frame.htm
it is freqquented by the likes of Eric Kettenburg and Eric Lanning - world renowned experts on the American Long rifle.

For a forum with more general info on 18th Century Americana - http://frontierfolk.net/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewforum.php?f=2&sid=dc1a555eb3ecd0dcfd0a362bfb10b615 is one of the best
 
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