I need some Spyderco help...

B

bladeboss

Joined
Mar 6, 2012
Messages
3,530
After i get my truck fixed, Im going to have some money left over.
With that money, Im going to get myself a new Spyderco.
The 2 models i have narrowed it down to are:
Delica 4 FFG
Para-Military 2

Obviously, the Para-military 2 is better, but the price is higher, and ive heard where the tip snaps easy.
WHAT IS FRN? iS IT STRONG OR JUST A FANCY NAME FOR PLASIC??
So what do you think? What should i choose?
IF YOU HAVE PICTURES OF EITHER, IT WOULD BE NICE :)
Thanks for any help.
Bladeboss
 
FRN= fiberglass reinforced nylon. It's not just plastic no.
Search in the Spyderco forums, there are tons of pictures there.
Please show me where the tip has snapped off easily on a Para2.
 
I think FRN is Fiberglass Reinforced Nylon. I have not broken an FRN handle yet. It's some pretty tough stuff. I have both knives and like both knives. I don't think you'll snap the tip off of the PM2 if you use it for it's intended purpose.

jwh
 
RevDevil said:
FRN= fiberglass reinforced nylon. It's not just plastic no.
Search in the Spyderco forums, there are tons of pictures there.
Please show me where the tip has snapped off easily on a Para2.
Click to expand...
A month or so ago on the EDC forum someone posted a picture of one that they had to re-profile because the tip has broke off. Maybe im wrong, but i did hear it.
 
I've had both. Get the PM2. It's highly regarded around here for good reason. I mean, if you're worried about snapping the tip off a PM2, the Delica 4 ffg won't be any sturdier at the tip...at all.
 
They both have "delicate tips" probably the Delica more so. That being said I have both and they are great knives, if you don't abuse them they won't break.
 
The delica is a classic, and one you'll definitely want to have eventually but...get the para2, its definitely worth it. Another GREAT spyderco you should consider is the Gayle Bradley.

With regard to tip strength, use it as a knife and the tip will never break. I know your knife preference seems to be in the overbuilt, bomb proof, tank of a knife category but I challenge you to look outside of that realm and understand the usefulness of a thin slicer with a splinter picking tip like the para2. Not every knife needs to be the strongest ever, sometime a thin tip is just what you need.
 
bladeboss said:
A month or so ago on the EDC forum someone posted a picture of one that they had to re-profile because the tip has broke off. Maybe im wrong, but i did hear it.
Click to expand...

Hmm. It is possible, but I haven't ever seen pictures of someone's busted knife. If you use it to cut with, there is nothing to worry about. It's when people try and pry on stuff that things like that happen, or when it gets dropped or stabbed.. It's quite possibly one of the best utility folders ever made. Sure, some people don't like it for whatever reason, but it works really well.
 
[video]http://www.myvido1.com/AZygWRUpGaNVGVWdnYXhTP_paramilitary2-tip-test[/video]

Jazz said:
Today was a good day to baton the crap out of this knife - "for science".

PA240055.jpg


My hands took most of the shock, let me tell you. There's some wood, dirt, or whatever on the blade, but it still slices paper great after beating it straight into the wood time after time.

PA240059.jpg


I steeled and stropped on the leather and it's back to shaving. H1 is awesome! There is, however a small problem with the action. Where you see the blade opened to in the last pic - if you thumb it slowly, it pauses at this point - kind of like something chipped away minutely on either the lockbar or the blades lock area - and then closes and locks up very securely. If I could take it apart, I'd know for sure. I won't take it apart until I render it useless. I want to know what FRN will do it extreme cold - that's my next test. :D

PA240061.jpg


If I destroy it, I was thinking of making some pendants with the H1 blade steel - plus I'd have a spare clip.

Thanks for looking at my highly professional scientific testing. ;)

- best wishes, Jazz.
Click to expand...
 
Jazz said:
Well, I took it to work and put it in the walk-in freezer up by the thermometer where I know it's - 20 C...

PA300052.jpg


After about an hour, I went in with an old broom and a chunk of another broom's handle and went to town on my knife - I was not nice (I felt bad for it, but it's for science). I batoned through the broom's handle - it's hard - Maple, I think. I took this pic later to show you the size.

PA300051.jpg

I pounded on the knife's sides, from top to bottom, on the blade, on the handle... then I left it to cool again. I tried not to warm it with my hands as I went to town. Next I grabbed the blade and torqued sideways both ways - hard, and used my Leatherman Wave to pinch and bend however I could. - 20 C, all that, and the FRN didn't even hint at cracking - just flexed like normal and went back to shape. There's some side to side play in it now, but that could be fixed by peening the pin. Still slices paper nicely...

PA300053.jpg


I can now defeat the lock with my own hands - only because I was unneccesarily cruel to the knife, even batoning it on the lockbar - really hard over and over (it takes a lot of force, but still). It feels really gritty too. I won't know why for sure until I take it apart sometime. I still want to get it out in - 40C, so I have to wait.
So far, FRN and H1 are impressing the heck out of me. I'm just a bit concerned about the lock - I can't see why it would fail (lets not be starting a big deal about this, either - I know it wasn't really normal knife use).

Anyway, the next test was just for fun...

PA300049.jpg


... and here's how I got it out...

PA300050.jpg


Thanks for reading and looking.

- best wishes, Jazz.
Click to expand...



to follow.....
 
Jazz said:
Well... -27 degrees C/-16 degrees F today... I put the knife outside for an hour to chill out.


PB230045.jpg


PB230046.jpg



I then flexed hardcore with all my hand strength side to side and the FRN and blade were fine. I grabbed 2 pieces of Oak and went to town again. First I batoned on the blade real hard like normal into the other chunk of wood. Then I layed it down and whacked the sides of the handle. Next, I rested the blade edge on the wood and put my weight on it... this is when I noticed the crack that must have happened when smacking the handle sides. Here's the crack...


PB230049.jpg



PB230052.jpg



I guess -27 C is somewhere around the limit for this stuff (with batoning and such). I'll be carrying my Milli or large Wegner in these temps from now on, but FRN seems fine (to me) down to -20 C/-5 F. I don't plan on using my knives for these extreme things, but what if?... Here's what it looks like in pieces...


PB230056.jpg



The areas I marked in the drawing are where there was plastic deformation from extreme batoning. It's kind of curved there a bit - that's why I could defeat the lock with my own hands only, I guess.


PB230057.jpg



You can kind of see it in this picture...


PB230058.jpg



After it was warmed inside for a while (so, it was around+ 20 C/+ 68 F), I flexed the FRN in a vise and it broke at this angle - two times I did it and the same angle it broke...


PB230061.jpg



Only one more thing to do, and that's make a couple of pendants from the blade material. I'll post these whenever I do them.

Thanks for reading, looking, and humoring me. :)

- best wishes, Jazz.
Click to expand...


These tests is a pretty indicator that FRN can take some serious abuse and this has been the case mentioned for years by people working in very cold environments as well as really warm and humid.

Here are my personal thoughts from my uses.

G10:

Good material,
resistant to most things (oils and grease that I see on site)
can crack if the impact is big enough
feels like quality
can look exceptionally good (eye candy)

Can wear smooth in my uses

FRN
Good material
Resistant to most things (oils and grease)
Will ding rather then crack with high impacts
Wont wear as smooth in my experience

Feels and looks cheap sometimes, but really it is like heat treat, "plastic" technology has grown and there is a lot of research behind it, think of Pelican cases for example.

At the end. All good, just different, what ever works for you.
 
Between those two I say the PM2 but I would also advise you to look at the Gayle Bradley if you like very well built knives I love mine and the cpm-m4 is super tough.
 
That's a tough decision.

I'm a huge fan of the Paramilitary 2, but the Delica is also a great choice. It really comes down to what the main purpose of the knife is going to be.


DSCN7158.jpg


DSCN7159.jpg


DSCN7156.jpg


DSCN7155.jpg
 
bladeboss said:
Obviously, the Para-military 2 is better
Click to expand...

Not better. Just different. Seriously. I probably prefer the Delica. Setting aside the difference in design and materials between the two, the Delica just has some kind of magnet mind control power over me that the Para 2 does not have. I just like it better.

Nice pics, Mr. EZ.
 
I have both (well, mine's a Para 1) and the Delica is just so light that it goes unnoticed in my pocket.
 
FRN uses nondirectional chopped glass fibers in a Nylon matrix, rather than woven fibers in an epoxy matrix. The strength is improved over a single phase material, but it's more flexible than fiberglass. The grip is pretty good, it's very light, and it won't chip with impact. I prefer fiberglass, but I'd say that FRN is more utilitarian. And the Delica 4 FFG is exactly that: utilitarian. It's not a knife that will impress you when you handle it for the first time, but after extended use you'll come to appreciate the functionality of the design. The PM2 is just a more elegant interpretation of a utilitarian knife.
 
Hm, Both Are Great Knives But I Would Go With The Para2 First.
It's Not A BETTER Knife Per-Say But It Does Have Different Materials, Build, Blade Thickness, Size, Etc.

The Para2 Is A Strong Knife Perfect For Slicing And Even Decently Hard Use. You're NOT Going To Break The Tip Unless You Do Some Dumb Ass Move Like... Prying A Car Door Open. If You Don't Plan On Doing Some Dumb Ass Move, You're Good To Go.

FRN Is NOT Really Truly Like Plastic. It Is Much Stronger And Much More Durable And Flexible.

With Either Knife You'll Get A Wonderful Knife. But The Para2 Is A Little Larger And More Over-Built Than The Delica. I Say Go Para2 First Because You'll Be Sure To Want To Carry And Use It And Such. With The Delica Some Love It Some Don't. You'll End Up With One Eventually. But I Say Go More Expensive First.
 
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