Jim March
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
- Messages
- 3,018
As many already know, I designed a Kydex sheath to go with the knife I designed, The Outsider. The sheathwork was done by Scott, and he added two key elements to the design that I'll describe below, both of which I feel he owns.
There's more on a Shop Talk thread here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000208.html
In addition, my original blueprint that Scott worked from is here:
Here's one of the photos Scott took for comparison:
As you can see, I can claim more than a small part in the design. What Scott added were:
1) Recessing the holes in front of where the primary blade edge swings out, to avoid snipping the lacings on draw (Doh! on my part).
2) Running two seperate thicknesses of Kydex on the top layer, to allow "springiness" which makes the whole draw work yet have solid retention around the grip area where most of the retention happens.
So the overall design is "mostly mine, partially Scott's".
I feel it's the best possible system of street-carry for big fixed blades in an "open carry only" legal climate such as California, or total concealment. Because it's got no built-in belt channel the ride height is extremely flexible, from "all the way above the belt and concealed" to "completely below the belt and peeking out legally from underneath a longish coat".
I find I usually tie it to my belt at the "halfway" point, with the grip exposed but the tip area under a sweater, sweatshirt or short jacket. It's still legal open carry, but by covering the upper half near the tip the "brutal reality of a huge monster knife" isn't rubbed too far into Sheeple noses to preclude casual social contact. With a conventional tip-down sheath, covering the grip would radically slow the draw...you could mount tip-up with a regular rig somehow but the necessary "straight down" draw would be slow and clumsy.
With this setup, the grip is close to where your hand casually dangles in any case, you can grab, roll the grip FORWARD and up, and have a clean fumble-free draw even though relatively little of the grip is free of semi-concealing clothing.
The version I'm planning will be of mixed Kydex/Leather construction. We're talking high-end here, probably in the $60 range, plus accessory silver accents done right, hand-tooling, whatever you want.
Leather over Kydex will allow me to avoid using two layers of Kydex like Scott did. Across the "mid-section" of the blade area, the kydex will be fairly narrow so that if the leather was removed, a fair area of blade would be clearly exposed. Special attention will be paid to keeping the tip area completely encased in either seamless kydex or extreme strength rivets, so that if you fell feet-first and the pommel snagged on something, the belt or laces would give way before the tip would punch through the sheath and into your gut or underarm.
Also: for those into reverse-grip combat, I have plans for a "tip DOWN" version of this rig tentatively known as the "slick shifter". You would put the "web of your thumb" area on the pommel, trigger the snap with your forefinger and do a "shifting into first gear on a floor-mount shift" type motion to start the draw, then come right up into a reverse grip. The problem is that this isn't going to work on "grip seriously above the belt" rigs that the original Outsider Sheath setup is superb for, including shoulder rig carry, above-the-kidney carry, etc.
DRAWBACKS:
This sheath is only fair at protection from the elements, due to it's somewhat "open" design. If you know how to use marine tough-cloth or similar treatments on your carbon-steel blades, or are into stainless pieces, cool. Or if legal, do full concealment.
I can also do a non-leather version for those who'll face extreme wet conditions. Bikers who might ride in the rain are a good example, unless they can legally alter their carry to full concealment to protect the leather.
KNIFE TYPES THIS'LL WORK ON:
Anything with about a 7" or above blade, out to around 12" or so. An 18" overall Khukuri maybe, or any big combat Bowie or other large fighter.
THE MARKET:
This is for people who want to carry serious combat knives comfortably and legally. Walter Welch and Ralf have seen The Outsider and it's sheath, and my draw sequences, I hope they comment.
For the moment, Scott Evans is not doing custom work. I would hope (and expect) that'll change. For my part, I just signed a 1 year computer contract starting in two weeks, so I intend to do small-scale hand-production only. I doubt the volume will be anything that'll take biz from Scott or the other top Kydex craftsmen.
Right now this is "just talk". I'm picking up materials in 2 to 4 weeks, and at that point I'd like to make a couple of these up for free for two or three forum regulars, with hopes they'd comment on the designs and provide input on improvements, etc. It'll be a good way to learn, and won't cost anybody anything except temporary lack of the blade and shipping in my direction only. I'd like to do one "combat oriented" Khukuri for certain, I'd guess a Sirupati or BAS versus the heavier Ang Khola? Maybe Cliff Stamp or Cobalt are interested? And if I recall right, Steve Harvey has a stainless Black Cloud fighter that might be a good testbed, other types certainly considered.
The "free beta test" program
will be only for regular posters at least interested in street carry of "streetfighter class" pieces.
Let's talk about it in this thread.
ALSO: Scott, I'd like your blessing on this. One possibility is for me to do one of these sheaths free on a good standard common fixed-blade of your choice, one you think might produce a good market for improved sheaths, and have you do a PRODUCTION version for that piece, no royalties to me. That would "pay you" for my use of the design elements you put into the Outsider rig as noted? The Cold Steel Trailmaster comes immediately to mind, you might have other ideas.
All comments welcome. I've been pondering how to start in sheathmaking for a while now, I'm working on setups for some friend's blades and I hope to have pics up of my handwork in a couple of weeks including a "slickshifter" for a Buck Nighthawk.
Jim March
There's more on a Shop Talk thread here:
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000208.html
In addition, my original blueprint that Scott worked from is here:
Here's one of the photos Scott took for comparison:
As you can see, I can claim more than a small part in the design. What Scott added were:
1) Recessing the holes in front of where the primary blade edge swings out, to avoid snipping the lacings on draw (Doh! on my part).
2) Running two seperate thicknesses of Kydex on the top layer, to allow "springiness" which makes the whole draw work yet have solid retention around the grip area where most of the retention happens.
So the overall design is "mostly mine, partially Scott's".
I feel it's the best possible system of street-carry for big fixed blades in an "open carry only" legal climate such as California, or total concealment. Because it's got no built-in belt channel the ride height is extremely flexible, from "all the way above the belt and concealed" to "completely below the belt and peeking out legally from underneath a longish coat".
I find I usually tie it to my belt at the "halfway" point, with the grip exposed but the tip area under a sweater, sweatshirt or short jacket. It's still legal open carry, but by covering the upper half near the tip the "brutal reality of a huge monster knife" isn't rubbed too far into Sheeple noses to preclude casual social contact. With a conventional tip-down sheath, covering the grip would radically slow the draw...you could mount tip-up with a regular rig somehow but the necessary "straight down" draw would be slow and clumsy.
With this setup, the grip is close to where your hand casually dangles in any case, you can grab, roll the grip FORWARD and up, and have a clean fumble-free draw even though relatively little of the grip is free of semi-concealing clothing.
The version I'm planning will be of mixed Kydex/Leather construction. We're talking high-end here, probably in the $60 range, plus accessory silver accents done right, hand-tooling, whatever you want.
Leather over Kydex will allow me to avoid using two layers of Kydex like Scott did. Across the "mid-section" of the blade area, the kydex will be fairly narrow so that if the leather was removed, a fair area of blade would be clearly exposed. Special attention will be paid to keeping the tip area completely encased in either seamless kydex or extreme strength rivets, so that if you fell feet-first and the pommel snagged on something, the belt or laces would give way before the tip would punch through the sheath and into your gut or underarm.
Also: for those into reverse-grip combat, I have plans for a "tip DOWN" version of this rig tentatively known as the "slick shifter". You would put the "web of your thumb" area on the pommel, trigger the snap with your forefinger and do a "shifting into first gear on a floor-mount shift" type motion to start the draw, then come right up into a reverse grip. The problem is that this isn't going to work on "grip seriously above the belt" rigs that the original Outsider Sheath setup is superb for, including shoulder rig carry, above-the-kidney carry, etc.
DRAWBACKS:
This sheath is only fair at protection from the elements, due to it's somewhat "open" design. If you know how to use marine tough-cloth or similar treatments on your carbon-steel blades, or are into stainless pieces, cool. Or if legal, do full concealment.
I can also do a non-leather version for those who'll face extreme wet conditions. Bikers who might ride in the rain are a good example, unless they can legally alter their carry to full concealment to protect the leather.
KNIFE TYPES THIS'LL WORK ON:
Anything with about a 7" or above blade, out to around 12" or so. An 18" overall Khukuri maybe, or any big combat Bowie or other large fighter.
THE MARKET:
This is for people who want to carry serious combat knives comfortably and legally. Walter Welch and Ralf have seen The Outsider and it's sheath, and my draw sequences, I hope they comment.
For the moment, Scott Evans is not doing custom work. I would hope (and expect) that'll change. For my part, I just signed a 1 year computer contract starting in two weeks, so I intend to do small-scale hand-production only. I doubt the volume will be anything that'll take biz from Scott or the other top Kydex craftsmen.
Right now this is "just talk". I'm picking up materials in 2 to 4 weeks, and at that point I'd like to make a couple of these up for free for two or three forum regulars, with hopes they'd comment on the designs and provide input on improvements, etc. It'll be a good way to learn, and won't cost anybody anything except temporary lack of the blade and shipping in my direction only. I'd like to do one "combat oriented" Khukuri for certain, I'd guess a Sirupati or BAS versus the heavier Ang Khola? Maybe Cliff Stamp or Cobalt are interested? And if I recall right, Steve Harvey has a stainless Black Cloud fighter that might be a good testbed, other types certainly considered.
The "free beta test" program
Let's talk about it in this thread.
ALSO: Scott, I'd like your blessing on this. One possibility is for me to do one of these sheaths free on a good standard common fixed-blade of your choice, one you think might produce a good market for improved sheaths, and have you do a PRODUCTION version for that piece, no royalties to me. That would "pay you" for my use of the design elements you put into the Outsider rig as noted? The Cold Steel Trailmaster comes immediately to mind, you might have other ideas.
All comments welcome. I've been pondering how to start in sheathmaking for a while now, I'm working on setups for some friend's blades and I hope to have pics up of my handwork in a couple of weeks including a "slickshifter" for a Buck Nighthawk.
Jim March
