I Smell a Rattail!

[waynorth]

"But also may have had a functional purpose. Here's one on a not very fancy old Harness Jack, (on the left)"

so Charlie, aside from a place to put your finger, did you have another idea in mind as for the purpose of the rat tail on that harness Jack, or in general?

Aside from lookin' good, and the finger-guard reason, I don't know. I keep waiting for someone to come up with another big reason!

 

[pertinux]

Why dont we see these more often?
They require an extra, expensive step to accomplish! If cut by hand they are prohibitive! Some cutleries just do not have the expertise.

Would it not be possible to create the form of the "rat tail" in the machining for the bolster itself, so that it's like that from the get-go, and have production companies taken this "short cut" before?

(If this is an extremely ignernt question, well... it won't be my first, but my apologies all the same!)

~ P.

 

[black mamba]

Rat-tailed and more!

 

[2Dead]

Let me note that a "Rat-Tail" file is tapered and a "Round" file has parallel sides (it's the same diameter for the whole length). Usually one starts the groove with a Rat-tail (it's easier) and finishes with a Round (to keep the width consistant); it's easier to guage depth with the round file. At least that's the way I was taught to do it.

Thanks for the further explanation!! I recalled the rat tail file being used but not all the details.

 

[Berkley]

Rat tails - file and bolster:

 

[Jack Black]

Remember the severely abused Lambsfoot?



Another old Sheffield wreck.

 

[burnside]

Great thread, Charlie! I find the rattails on traditional folders to be aesthetically pleasing. This thread has actually rekindled my interest in the 2013 BF knife! I just hope that GEC will come out with the 2013 BF pattern in other handle materials like they did with the 2012 BF knife.

 

[abcdef]

Also called fluted bolster.

 

[waynorth]

Would it not be possible to create the form of the "rat tail" in the machining for the bolster itself, so that it's like that from the get-go, and have production companies taken this "short cut" before?

(If this is an extremely ignernt question, well... it won't be my first, but my apologies all the same!)

~ P.

Cutleries have pre-formed rattail grooves into the bolsters in the past, with varying results. They are hard to finish without losing the symmetry.
The biggest reason I can't wait to see the BF knife is this detail! They have created the form, and it remains to be seen how well it works.



Some call them fluted, abcdef. Flutes, more correctly, are longitudinal IMO.
But that discussion has gone on unresolved for years!

 

[klineh]

An old Sheffield Jack. Neat thread!

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

Just a quick pic in bad lighting of my Hartkopff, new to me as of this weekend Montgomery Ward Eureka, ?Crosdale? Leeds swayback, and Lockwood Brothers rooster jack. Guess I have four, three of which I feel are more working designs, while the double bolstered Ward is fancier, yet seems to be a solid worker. I note that the harder working knives of the Rooster and Swayback have deeper grooves, possibly for more secure purchase? But then one would think the Hartkopff could use it too as I could see it being used as a hunting knife, getting just as wet and dirty as the other two.

 

[neeman]

This is Mike's image
But since I purchased the knife from him, perhaps he will not mind my borrowing the image and the blurb

Schatt & Morgan Harness Knife
Year: 2009 Condition: Mint
Misc: XIX Set
Handle: Smooth Harvest Bone
Steel: Stainless Size: 3 5/8"

 

[LEOGREG]

[/IMG]
A rat tailed Schrade Cut. Co. Bosen's Mate.
Anybody know when these were made?

 

[Campbellclanman]

A nice Wade & butcher that no longer resides at my house-in fact its with our good friend Mike B


A couple of neat Old rats Tails here.....


4 knives bottom and right with Rats Tails, note they are all English knives with the RT's, The bottom knife having an interesting and different version....



This guy is OLLLLLLLD, and still snaps like a bear trap, has a nice sharp bevel of the front of the Bolster..


When you see the knife in this perspective you can stand back and see just how wide this Rats Tail really is on this Bolster!


Heres the different almost Barlow Bolster that is Rats Tailed!!! - Kinda cool eh!


Johnathan Crooks, again English, and Rats Tailed..


Miller Bros - has the more rounded Bolstered finish - rather than a square cut-off on the sides - Nice!!.......



My most carried Rats Tail Bolstered knife, Humphries Sheffield....

 

[pertinux]

Cutleries have pre-formed rattail grooves into the bolsters in the past, with varying results. They are hard to finish without losing the symmetry.

Thanks, Charlie. Can those who study older knives and their construction spot the pre-formed rattail grooves straight off-- do there tend to be obvious giveaways? Or, does it simply depend on a given example?

The biggest reason I can't wait to see the BF knife is this detail! They have created the form, and it remains to be seen how well it works.

Something like this, it would seem:

(I had no idea my question was pertinent to the upcoming Forum knife, yet: there it is!)

~ P.

 

[eisman]

If you look at the knives shown in this thread you should notice the number that have the rat-tail groove cut to include the main bearing pin for the blade. That's one of the main reasons it's difficult to cut the groove prior to assembly of the knife. You could design the bolsters so that they had room to move the groove away from the pin, but that creates other issues in itself.

I feel the rat-tail groove is very much like the flat bolster, a sign of more involved hand work. I'd also be willing to bet that in some cases it was a signature mark by a craftsman.

 

[waynorth]

If you look at the knives shown in this thread you should notice the number that have the rat-tail groove cut to include the main bearing pin for the blade. That's one of the main reasons it's difficult to cut the groove prior to assembly of the knife. You could design the bolsters so that they had room to move the groove away from the pin, but that creates other issues in itself.

I feel the rat-tail groove is very much like the flat bolster, a sign of more involved hand work. I'd also be willing to bet that in some cases it was a signature mark by a craftsman.

Interesting remarks on the fine points, Eisman. I agree; from what I have seen, flat bolsters and Rattail grooves are indications of advanced workmanship, and the ability to achieve that work.
It looks like the bolster blanks above in ~P's post will have the pivot outside the groove. In a production knife, it seems the only way to fly.

 

[Pipeman]

I can add two, I probably need more.

Great thread.

Best regards

Robin

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[Will Power]

That Miller's a Nice Old Rat for sure Robin.

Thanks, Will

 

[waynorth]

There is just some fine old pocket-iron showing up here!
Thanks everyone for scraping up all that wonderfully patina-ed, mellowed stuff!
And the newer reprises as well!
It's great to see how more recent makers and producers approach the Rattail!

Please keep them coming!!