I think I'm going to start making knives.

Comeuppance

Comeuppance

Fixed Blade EDC Emisssary
Joined
Jan 12, 2013
Messages
4,765
I've played with the idea in the past, but it wasn't until I designed a knife I was going to have someone build that I realized it might be my passion. Why not build them myself? I have a lot of ideas, I love complicated and technical processes, I have always enjoyed machining, and I really like the idea of putting out a product that people will like and use.

Now that I know this knife fixation isn't some brief hobby for me, I think it's time to get things going.

One of my major concerns is my complete lack of equipment. The initial setup cost will be high. I have only a basement to work in, and it's not exactly huge.

On top of that, I'll probably need to take some metallurgy and machining classes. I know a lot of people don't do that, but I want to have a fairly intimate understanding of the materials I'm working with.

I'm lucky to have found this forum, as I would never have even considered it if I didn't know how I was going to reach experienced makers, or, for that matter, a customer base.

So, what are some pointers and advice? Mistakes to avoid making, things to do in preparation, good beginner projects, good suppliers for machinery and raw materials, personal experiences with the startup process, etc?
 
Hey comeuppance, good to see you over here. :)

Take a long look at the sticky at the top. Literally every question you asked is answered there.
 
You can do it all with a drill press and hand tools

You can send it out for heat treating

Read this next post, I compiled it just for you


Let's see your drawings
 
The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V31

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than a 60 year old machinist
We have members worldwide, you may have a local supplier, hammerin or helpful neighbour.
Please join our community and fill out your profile with location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment and hobbies so we get a sense of where and who you are.

Look at the threads stuck to the top of the page.

The basics in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save http://www.2shared.com/document/hk4wQruA/Absolute_Cheapskate_Way_to_Sta.html
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3622507/Jones-Scott-Jonesy-Absolute-Cheapskate-Way-to-Start-Making-Knives


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?8og1ix21j9dcz4n

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?02ra4do6xyzayeq
http://www4.gvsu.edu/triert/cache/articles/nw1/scales1.htm

Bob Egnath how to http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9435307&postcount=43

BladeForums - E-books or Google books http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Books I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
Clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive.

Knife Design:
Think thin. Forget swords, saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Look at hundreds of photos

Start with a drawing and show us, we love to comment on photos.
French curves, graph paper and an eraser are vital tools.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_bHFtVNs9tWA/TEj5Quiq1ZI/AAAAAAAAAI0/rn2EoHoXpVc/s1600/The+French+Curve.jpg

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1147466-How?p=13120810#post13120810

Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such.
Use playdough to shape a comfortable handle, good handles are not flat.

How to post a photo
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...AL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums

Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Bob Engnath Patterns in a PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?qgx7yebn77n77qx


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith - A modern book with colour photos - forging - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF Http://www.archive.org/download/elementarymachin00palmrich/elementarymachin00palmrich.pdf

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF http://ia700309.us.archive.org/6/items/completepractic00rosegoog/completepractic00rosegoog.pdf
Right Click and save link as.
It’s being reprinted now if you prefer paper books

The $50 knife Shop-not recommended
This book has a great title, but is NOT gospel. It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench BS, Even back when they used whale oil, it was still liquid oil.
Use a commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
Grocery store canola oil works for some steels like 1084.

Junkyard steel requires skill and experience to identify and heat treat it properly.
Forget Lawnmower blades and railroad spike, start with a new known steel.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply, and quench in Canola.

Cable damascus is an advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but 2x72” belt grinders free plans are now on the web.


Videos

Don't be this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOTtslHARQ

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.howtomakeaknife.net/FreeStuff/SafetyVideo.wmv

Many knifemaking videos are available, some better than others.

The best beginner videos I have seen:
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, machine stitching)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. This as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles I mentioned too - spend some time searching.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/499...femaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

See a list of videos for rent and read the reviews, Some are good, some bad, expect to wait weeks or months

http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel and quench in Canola oil.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

Suppliers List
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)

FAQ's
http://www.hypefreeblades.com/faq.html

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K
Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/673173-Working-the-three-steel-types

If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 or CPM-s35vn and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 because of HT minimum charges.



Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench and Motor oil.

Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
The best explanation and classification oil speeds I've seen
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?28197-Hardening-II-Quenching

Grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel like 1084

Brine and water are cheap, and technically correct for "water hardening" steels W1 and 1095 but a fast oil like Parks 50 or Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades
If you use water or brine, expect to hear a "tink" and have a cracked or broken blade

Glue – Epoxy
Use a new package of slow setting 30 min to 1 hour, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and seal out moisture.
Slow epoxy is stronger and gives you time to work with it.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive or blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean and no oil including fingerprints.
Use Acetone & Alcohol, or Blasting.
Don't over clamp it. Avoid a “glue starved joint” when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
Use:
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Just use 1084 instead of a file.

Stacy - 10 Tools
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1049666-Ten-Tools?p=11983527#post11983527

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg
Http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8152684286_312b9fc8da_b.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9iNDRwwBQQ#t=330

Grinders
A professional three or four wheel 2x72 is worth it
In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.

Entry Level Grinders
Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qfYT_m2Tw0


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.metalwebnews.com/manuals/knife-grinder.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://www.wilmontgrinders.com/Pages/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html



VFD Variable Speed made simple

Step pulleys are not as cheap as you may think
Maska cast steel pulleys are good and well balanced $75 EACH here plus shaft, bearings, belt

It all adds up to about 1/2 the price of a KBAC-27D

I like direct drive with no belts using a VFD and 3 phase motor for about $200 over the price of the step pulleys with much finer control.

Yes you can get cheaper NEMA 1 VFD’s and build your own enclosure
You may find them cheaper at other retailers and on Ebay direct from china.

Wayne Coe
http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/Motors___VFDs.html

VFD-
KBAC-27D

Motor
3 phase 220v 1.5 HP motor, TEFC, frame 56 or 56C,
RPM is up to you many are happy with a 1700 RPM running at double speed.
Make sure it has a footed base for the KMG and NWG, or a C flange face mount for Bader, Bee, Wilton and GIB styles.
I get them on ebay, even with paying $80 for shipping to Canada I save $$$ on a used motor.

The 1.5 HP combination is the most common, as reported by Rob Frink
It allows you to plug into any 110vac, 15 amp outlet.
A 2 HP motor requires a 220vac input.

There are cheaper VFD units like the TECO, but the only VFD I have found that will run a 1.5 HP motor on a 110v 15 amp input is the KBAC27D

It is NEMA4, sealed from metal dust that can burnout the unit.
It has good community and company support, manuals, hook-up diagrams, photos and settings on Rob Frink’s website.

I like the fact that I can buy it from a local distributor in Canada.

Travis W reports running a 2 HP on a 110v circuit, but I haven’t tried it.

Hookup is dead simple
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/VS-setup.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and use safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
Goggle "Ed Caffrey lung cancer"
Wearing a mask on the top of your head doesn't count.

The minimum I would consider are silicone half masks with a P100 Filter
3M 7500
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...Ox_Uev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=CH7500FP.pdf

and North 7700
http://www.amazon.com/North-Safety-770030L-Silicone-Respirator/dp/B002C08YCW
http://www.amazon.com/North-7580P100-P100-Particulate-Cartridge/dp/B000UH6PSE/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b.

Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.
Prefilters can snap over the main filter for longer life.
There are 3 sizes, buy one in person at a safety supplier and get it fitted.

For beards, pick one of these
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II


Searching

This Google page searches BF and works well.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

Can I get rich making knives ?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...knife-making-worth-it?p=11980504#post11980504

V31 Nov 1, 2013
Darrin Sander is no longer HT'ing blades.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1074496-I-m-no-longer-heat-treating-blades

Countavatar.jpg
 
Last edited:
ah, the count...

i am making knives # 1-5 all with files hacksaws and a drill press. and i am going to send them all out in a batch to HT at peters. it can be done my friend.

good luck and i look forward to some WIPs.
 
There's going to be a lot of research before I start doing anything. I'll probably be doing customization to get started and then move into full-blown knife making. That hugediculous list of links is going to keep me occupied for a while - thank you!

I don't plan on making art knives, either. I'm already working on the design for the first knife - a fixed blade for people in retail and warehouses. I also have some rather ambitious plans for folders that will definitely have to wait until I have some power tools.

This is an exciting time for me. For the first time, I've decided on a career and had no niggling little doubts. The day I purchase a "knifemaker / service provider" membership here will be life changing.
 
pick up some knife blanks from one of the suppliers and practice on the handles while you research, hands on experience is second to none.
 
Yes, it's the long range plan that will get you there. But it's readily doable if you stick with it. My best to you. Frank
 
x2 on the handle practice. I have worked with wood for years. building pool cues. I can not get the hang of a handle. they never come out right for me. guess im used to just making things perfectly round and straight.
 
I was in exactly your shoes last March. The very same info you are reading through, I read through too and avoided tons of mistakes. I made some too though...of course...If I could do it again I would:

PROBABLY buy a grinder with a VFD...I say that because I do wish I had one, but the extra cost was prohibitive at the time. My three speed grinder is useful and slow is slow enough to do detail work. Also changing the drive belt to another pulley isn't THAT big a deal. If I buy a second grinder, it will certainly have one and my current grinder will be relegated to rough work or high speed stuff. That said, if the money is there, the VFD is the way to go.

Think about dust in your basement. This is a biggy...You will make tons of it. For me, the best thing I did was get a water bucket up really close to the bottom of the lower wheel so most of the dust landed in the bucket and stayed in the water. I then put a shop vac hose near the top of the buck to suck out any dust that was trying to escape....and I use a box fan with some fiber material to filter the air a bit more...Since I started doing all that - especially running my poor shop vac all the time....dust mitigation was way better. This is a poor man's version of proper dust mitigation. If you have a real solution, use it, otherwise EVERYTHING will become dusty...
 
Many good things have been said above. I would say start out slow and do not go all out on equipment. Start off with hand tools and hand held powertools with a few other things such as a grinder and belt sander. Start out with fixed blades is the best option and I hope your basement is unfinished. Some ventilation will be good and you will be cleaning up quite a bit. If you have never made a knife it is best to start simple and then go from there. I started with a small fixed blade and pinned G10 handles on it with epoxy. For starters it is going to be beneficial to send out your blades for heat treat until you grow. Peters for big batches is what I use and for smaller batches there are one or two people on the forum that offer the service (sometimes you can find a local place too). Take your time and learn from as many people as you can. My first knife is very rough looking but hey I have a great since of accomplishment from it and love it because I have the photos of what I started with (piece of steel) and turned it into a knife. Tools I started with: Files, Sandpaper, handheld drill, good vise, simple 6 inch bench grinder, simple 1x30 belt sander, respirator and safety glasses, marker/carpenters pencil, and dremel tool (not needed for your first, but is good to have down the road) I think I got most of them and from there you slowly add and replace tools/ supplies. I am in college so I did not and still do not have a large budget so I would always research and try to find what I could get by with while doing a decent job. A nice sharpening system I still need and I recommend one as it is good for final edge/secondary bevel.
 
Knife making is one of those things that can be a cheap or expensive as you want it to be, as well as being as simple or complicated as you want it to be.

Just start basic/simple (whatever that might mean for you), and take baby steps from there.

The stickies are a great place to start, and experience is the next best teacher after that.
 
I've been at it for about two years now and can say I've never found a hobby I've liked more. I'm still a long way from being an expert, but the best advice I can give is take your time. Working in spurts, it usually takes me a couple of months to make something I'm proud of. Also, I highly recommend North Coast Knives (http://www.northcoastknives.com/) as a great source for affordable supplies and info. They produce a DVD that covers both full and hidden tang construction that was immensely helpful to me when I started out. Frankly, you already ahead of me just by being here! I wish I had known about this forum when I started - Its the best one I've seen.
 
I need some help
I would like to start making knives also, but I have so many questions
one being every one is always talking about 2x42 belt grinders, but i can never find one?
also should it be labeled as a grinder or is a sander okay?
your response will be much appreciated
 
To jw and the op. You can find used 2x42 s on craigslist. I would look for the old 1 hp craftsmans. Instead of the new 1/2hp models. They run a little slower from what Have read, and have plenty of power. I have the. 1 hp craftsman and love it so far. I just wish it was variable speed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top