I think this is the right place....new guy here

[USCG_Cannon_Cocker]

So, AR15.com has told me to come over here so I have. I gained interest in this hobby over the last few days because of YouTube of all things http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/images/smilies/biggrin.gif I initially went there to learn how to make Micarta so I can make grips for my 1911.

Anywho, about after two hours of watching knife making videos I said, hey, why not. So here I am. I've got all the tools I need already minus a furnace. I ordered up some flat stock and now I'm just waiting on it to get here.

I've got a rough sketch that I brainstormed this afternoon and if you guys wouldn't mind, pick it apart. I have a feeling the response is going to be something akin to me going over to the aforementioned website and proudly displaying my Vulcan AR15. So, hit me with what you've got. I'm all ears! Thanks to the site for having me. Here is the sketch.

I'm not entirely sure what I want to do with the tip. I may make a slight (undercut?) near the tip as I have it in the drawing...not entirely sure. I'm open to suggestions.

 

[12345678910]

WElcome, I usually hit newcomers with this.

Good for you for searching, maybe you found this ?


The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V27

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than to a 40 year old engineer.
We may recommend a local supplier, you may have a helpful neighbour, or local Hammerin; but that depends on where you are. We have members worldwide.
Please fill out your profile with your location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment, hobbies.

Look at the threads stickied not all are expired.

The basics in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save http://www.2shared.com/document/hk4wQruA/Absolute_Cheapskate_Way_to_Sta.html
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Website http://www.hossom.com/jonesy/


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?8og1ix21j9dcz4n

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?02ra4do6xyzayeq

Bob Egnath how to's http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9435307&postcount=43

BladeForums - E-books or Google books http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203


I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
Clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive too.

Knife Design:

Think thin.
Forget swords, Saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Start with a drawing.
Show it to us, we love to see and comment on photos.
Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such
Then use wood, paint sticks are free & close to the right size.
If it “feels right”, it usually “looks right“

How to post a photo on BF
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...AL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums

See the Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, the Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Bob Engnath Patterns compiled into a PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?qgx7yebn77n77qx


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith
An excellent modern book with colour photos for forging - no specific knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- has 3 books. Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF http://www.archive.org/download/elementarymachin00palmrich/elementarymachin00palmrich.pdf

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF http://ia700309.us.archive.org/6/items/completepractic00rosegoog/completepractic00rosegoog.pdf
Right Click and save link as.
It’s being reprinted now; you can get it for $20 ish

The $50 knife Shop
It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can just file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench it's BS, Even back when they used whale oil, it was still liquid oil.
Use a commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type; even grocery store canola oil works much better for some steels.

Junkyard steel requires skill and experience to identify and heat treat it properly.
Forget Lawnmower blades and start with a new known steel type.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply, and quench in Canola.

I like cable damascus, but that's an advanced project that has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but there is now a huge amount of info for 2x72” belt grinders on the web, including free plans.


Videos

Don't be this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOTtslHARQ

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.howtomakeaknife.net/FreeStuff/SafetyVideo.wmv

Many knifemaking videos are available, some better than others.

The best overall Knifemaking video I have seen is
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

Basic Bladesmithing
"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

The best video on leather sheath making for beginners is
“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, machine stitching)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. I just post this as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles too. Use the keywords “LurkerLurker torrent” “knifemakerC torrent” “tpb knifemaking”and others
Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/499...femaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

See a list of videos at this rental company and read the reviews, some are good, some aren't.
http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel and quench in Canola oil.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K
Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/673173-Working-the-three-steel-types

If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 or CPM-s35vn and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 because of HT minimum charges.

(Darrin Sanders now offers HT on single blades in oil hardening steels)

Suppliers List
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/member.php/246861-darrin-sanders Oil hardening steel onesies


Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench and Motor oil.

Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;

Grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel like 1084

Brine and water are almost free, and technically correct for W1 and "water hardening" steels but a fast oil like Parks 50 and Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades.
If you use water or brine, expect to hear a "tink" and have a cracked or broken blade

Glue – Epoxy
Use a new package of slow setting 30min to 1 hour, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles as well as seal out moisture. Slow epoxy is stronger and gives you time to work with it.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive or blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean & no oil including fingerprints.
Use Acetone & Alcohol, or Blasting.
Clamp with moderate pressure to avoid a “glue starved joint” when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
These are proven:
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Files can be made from unhardenable steel, or steel similar to 1095 that needs a difficult HT
Just use 1084 instead of a file.

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg
Http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8152684286_312b9fc8da_b.jpg


Grinders
In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.

Entry Level Grinders
Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qfYT_m2Tw0


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://wilmontgrinders.com/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html



VFD Variable Speed made simple

Simplest, and cheapest are hardly ever the same, but:
Step pulleys are not as cheap as you may think
Maska cast steel pulleys are good and well balanced $75 EACH here plus shaft, bearings, belt

It all adds up to about 1/2 the price of a KBAC-27D

I like direct drive with no belts using a VFD and 3 phase motor for about $200 over the price of the step pulleys with much finer control.

Yes you can get cheaper NEMA 1 VFD’s and build your own enclosure
Or you may find them cheaper at other retailers, but watch shipping.

Wayne Coe
http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/Motors___VFDs.html

VFD-
KBAC-27D

Motor
3 phase 220v 1.5 HP motor, TEFC, frame 56 or 56C,
RPM is up to you many are happy with a 1700 RPM running at double speed.
Make sure it has a footed base for the KMG and NWG, or a C flange face mount for Bader, Bee, Wilton and GIB styles.
I get them on ebay, even with paying $80 for shipping to Canada I save $$$ on a used motor.


The 1.5 HP combination is the most common setup, as reported by Rob Frink
It allows you to plug into any 110vac, 15 amp outlet.
A 2 HP motor requires a 220vac input.

There are cheaper VFD units like the TECO, but the only VFD I have found that will run a 1.5 HP motor on a 110v 15 amp input is the KBAC27D

It is NEMA4, sealed from metal dust that can burnout the unit.
It has good community and company support, manuals, hook-up diagrams, photos and settings on Rob Frink’s website.

I like the fact that I can buy it from a local distributor in Canada.

Travis W reports running a 2 HP on a 110v circuit, but I haven’t tried it.

Hookup is dead simple
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/VS-setup.html



Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and use safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
Goggle "Ed Caffrey lung cancer"

The minimum I would consider are silicone half masks with a P100 Filter
3M 7500
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...Ox_Uev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=CH7500FP.pdf

and North 7700
http://www.amazon.com/North-Safety-770030L-Silicone-Respirator/dp/B002C08YCW
http://www.amazon.com/North-7580P100-P100-Particulate-Cartridge/dp/B000UH6PSE/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b.

Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.
There are also prefilters that snap over the main filter for longer life.
There are 3 sizes, buy one in person at a safety supplier and get it fitted.

For beards, pick one of these
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II


Searching
Search works for ALL users-Try it.

This Google page searches BF only & works better than the forum search.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

V27 July 30, 2012
Simplified ALL links to avoid the BB software link scramble and trimmed to stay within the 1500 character limit.

 

[USCG_Cannon_Cocker]

You, Sir, are awesome. Tons of info there. Thank you much. I do have a book coming my way so that should help a bit. I've been doing a lot of reading on the subject. I'll weed through the wall of text and find what I need first. Again, thank you.

 

[12345678910]

Since you've already got a drawing, I'd suggest you cut the outline in wood, like paint sticks - they're free.


On that particular design, think about rounding off the corners on the handle so they don't rip your hand open.

 

[thegeek574]

While your knife looks interesting, it is not going to be a good first project. Please don't take that wrong, but something simple is the best way to go. Let me put it this way. If you were going to create a gun from scratch, assuming you had all the tools necessary but none of the experience, are you going to start with a pistol or a target rifle with a 30 inch barrel? Start simple. Make something small, work on it much longer than you thought you would need to, do everything as well as you can, and you will have a knife that you are proud of at the end of the experience. If you rush it, like I did to my first few, you won't really like it. Start small and then work up to your dream knife. Just my 2 cents.

Also, welcome to BF! read, learn, search for answers to any questions you might have, and then, if you can't find what you are looking for, come and ask and we will be happy to help.

Here is a thread that I recommend EVERYONE reads. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...heeler-s-Steel-*-Stuck-in-the-metal-with-you/ It is a incredible journey through a knife maker with incredible amounts of experience and ability that really gives you insight into how much work goes into a knife. Also, a fun read.

 

[USCG_Cannon_Cocker]

Since you've already got a drawing, I'd suggest you cut the outline in wood, like paint sticks - they're free.


On that particular design, think about rounding off the corners on the handle so they don't rip your hand open.

Thanks for the tip. I'll look into paint sticks. I will be rounding out corners as needed.

ETA: I love your user name. LOL

 

[USCG_Cannon_Cocker]

While your knife looks interesting, it is not going to be a good first project. Please don't take that wrong, but something simple is the best way to go. Let me put it this way. If you were going to create a gun from scratch, assuming you had all the tools necessary but none of the experience, are you going to start with a pistol or a target rifle with a 30 inch barrel? Start simple. Make something small, work on it much longer than you thought you would need to, do everything as well as you can, and you will have a knife that you are proud of at the end of the experience. If you rush it, like I did to my first few, you won't really like it. Start small and then work up to your dream knife. Just my 2 cents.

Also, welcome to BF! read, learn, search for answers to any questions you might have, and then, if you can't find what you are looking for, come and ask and we will be happy to help.

Here is a thread that I recommend EVERYONE reads. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...heeler-s-Steel-*-Stuck-in-the-metal-with-you/ It is a incredible journey through a knife maker with incredible amounts of experience and ability that really gives you insight into how much work goes into a knife. Also, a fun read.

Thank you as well. I thought it looked awesome. I read earlier about certain types of points you can put on a knife and dagger points, which that kind of qualifies as, if I'm right, will and do snap off with regularity. I hadn't really planned on using or gifting my first one. It was more of a proof of concept for me; can I do it, sort of thing. I may end up going with a more traditional point if I decide to make this a utilitarian knife though so thank you for the input.

I'm assuming you're saying it wouldn't be a good first project due to the design of the blade, correct? If not just that, what is wrong with the handle?

No offense taken to your post. That's why I'm here! Thanks!

 

[bdmicarta]

Welcome to this hobby.

I find your path particularly interesting. I've been collecting knives for a long time and I found that even when I began micarta was a common knife handle material, but was almost unheard of in handgun grips. As time progressed I found a few people that made single action revolver grips from paper micarta. Finally I found a few 1911 grips made from canvas micarta. I'm still not sure that they are very common though. The other part of your journey is also interesting to me because I am planning to try making some micarta from blue denim myself. I decided to wait until cold weather to try this because it would give me the most working time with the epoxy resin.

 

[fast14riot]

Welcome! Your blade design looks interesting to me. At first it looks "tacti-cool" but as I look at it a bit more I see a traditional handle shape on a stretched out kiridashi. If you take the blade edge a bit steeper, closer to maybe 40-45 degree from horizontal, it will give you a stronger tip and shorten the blade. I think with a few tweaks you can have a design that is easy enough to make for a first timer and one that (with proper heat treat) will be a good user.


-Xander

 

[USCG_Cannon_Cocker]

Welcome! Your blade design looks interesting to me. At first it looks "tacti-cool" but as I look at it a bit more I see a traditional handle shape on a stretched out kiridashi. If you take the blade edge a bit steeper, closer to maybe 40-45 degree from horizontal, it will give you a stronger tip and shorten the blade. I think with a few tweaks you can have a design that is easy enough to make for a first timer and one that (with proper heat treat) will be a good user.


-Xander

As you may be able to see, I have the blade to about 4 1/4 inches. I was seriously considering lopping off 3/4 of an inch on it. It would almost be a EDC type knife and would meet legal requirements for length in a lot of places. Thank you for the idea and angles as I'm not privy to such a thing....yet. I have never bought anything higher in quality than a baseline kershaw and honestly, never really looked at anything seriously. I did not mean to rip off any designs if I did. Just something I brainstormed.

I have to ask about the edge I was thinking about putting on it since I didn't mention it, and I don't know all the nomenclature of blade making so here goes; should I stick with a two sided edge or would I be ok with going with one side completely flat and the other one ground to an edge?

Thanks guys!

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Welcome to Shop Talk.

I don't think your shape will work in reality. Lots of things look good on paper. The tip would never survive use...if it even survives manufacturing. The handle looks uncomfortable.

I would suggest you look at some knife photos and pick out a simple drop point hunter that you like. Draw it out and keep the design as simple as possible. Forget whistles and bells, like filework, false edges, and fancy butt shapes. Just have a basic 3" blade and a comfortable 4" handle. That alone will be plenty to master on your first knife.
There is a good tutorial in the stickies about making a first knife project.

Work up some more sketches and post them here. The guys in Shop Talk vary from new makers to old pros. They will offer lots of good critique. Take what you want from that and tweak the design until it seems right.