I thought this forum was for bladesmith questions and answers

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LARRYZ10

LARRYZ10

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Feb 6, 2010
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It seems that "blade smith questions and answers" has slowly morphed into the Greenberg woods advertising site. Why do knife makers pay good money for their membership in the forum just to be sold woods by one supplier? Am I an unreasonable person? Maybe so. Just tell me before I send more money to participate in this forum. I have never run promotions for my knives as I think it would be unacceptable and tacky. Maybe I'm the one who should just shut up and find another forum . Larry
 
Larry, I think that is a touch unfair to me.

I made 4 posts in the month of December out of about 240 posts. 1 was a give away, and the others were asking knife makers what kind of wood would interest them in terms of sizing and precut scales. That makes it about 1.6% posts by me. The rest are knife making and bladesmithing questions. I try to give advise on the aspects of knife making I am knowledgeable on by helping give advise on wood selection, identification and finishing. I am open to suggestions of what you would rather I do.
 
very interesting...
I never saw Ben's posts as an advertising ploy, mostly just seemed like a young guy trying to build his business and learn about and service his customers.

we pay good money so we can sell our knives on this site if we want to, otherwise we don't have to pay.

when I go through the posts I don't read every single one, and if you click on something and it's not relevant then you can move on.

I've bought wood from Ben, but I buy most of my supply elsewhere, I'm not feeling like I'm being "sold woods by one supplier?"
Ben's purchased the dealer provider membership, I think he's well within his rights
 
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I read this sub forum all the time lots of great info here. I’ve been Messing around with a few knives from files. I’m no bladesmith just a tinkerer and appreciate the makers threads here to read. But I have to agree with Larry almost every post from you is. I’m working stocking this wood or what do you guys think of this,which is great but they are all just saying look what I have for sale more them anything.
 
Ben, You list yourself as a dealer an materials provider. I don't see any of your competitors making posts year in and year out about what they to have to sell. Look, I don't want to argue or even criticize you because if the moderator for this forum is ok with your promotions then who am I to object or comment. I just know that about five years ago many top knife makers stopped participating in this forum for other reasons and I was close to stopping my participation also. I find that your continual promotion of your business on a site that I pay a good dollar towards a bit aggravating. You are making money with your business andgood for you. I guess I will come out as the bad guy and have to not post here anymore. Good luck with you business. Larry
 
LARRYZ10 said:
Ben, You list yourself as a dealer an materials provider. I don't see any of your competitors making posts year in and year out about what they to have to sell. Look, I don't want to argue or even criticize you because if the moderator for this forum is ok with your promotions then who am I to object or comment. I just know that about five years ago many top knife makers stopped participating in this forum for other reasons and I was close to stopping my participation also. I find that your continual promotion of your business on a site that I pay a good dollar towards a bit aggravating. You are making money with your business andgood for you. I guess I will come out as the bad guy and have to not post here anymore. Good luck with you business. Larry
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Larry, I dont think you are the bad guy and I dont think anyone else does. I think for this forum to exist it needs to retain a mix of both knife makers and dealers. If i am not wrong, Burl source no longer has a dealer membership on this site. I think there needs to be a balance of advertising if the site wants to keep the dealers who cater to the exact needs of knife makers, and who are willing to pay the rather expensive dealers memberships. There has to be a balance for both groups to remain.

I understand your frustration and am sorry my posts came off as advertising. I think its fair to ask me to make less of them and I plan to.

I think it is less fair to call me out in a public forum without talking to me or a moderator first.
 
I have never bought anything from greenburg. That said I have felt like he was open and and used this forum in a very upfront and respectful way. I have ZERO problems with him. The guy is starting a business in this industry and I kinda thought that's why you have a paid membership. I have a feeling that in another couple of years he will not need to let us know about his "deals" because he will be a standard place to go. I get adds from becker and others and they all pay for what they do and the context of what they do and it is fine. Who the back are you to call out someone who is both trying and asking within the context and limits of this forum. Why do you feel like it's ok to call out one young student who sells on his breaks.

Please explain why you think it's ok to call out someone who hasn't done jack to you?

It seems that "blade smith questions and answers" has slowly morphed into the Greenberg woods advertising site. Why do knife makers pay good money for their membership in the forum just to be sold woods by one supplier? Am I an unreasonable person? (Yes I think you are. Who does this. If he wronged you feel free to let use know.)Maybe so. Just tell me before I send more money to participate in this forum. I have never run promotions for my knives as I think it would be unacceptable and tacky. Maybe I'm the one who should just shut up and find another forum . Larry
 
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Should I please explain why I called out someone who hasn't done "Jack"to me. I guess the answer is that it has been on my mind for a long time. I, like most of you have been deluged by advertising for a long time an I got irritated by the blatant promotion for Wood sales over a long period that I finally snapped and wrote what I knew what would cause me to be reviled by many members of the forum. Yes , I knew I would be roasted for picking on this young man. Is the name of this subforum "wood for sale"? If the moderator will tell me that I'm out of line then I will go away. Is that fair enough? I will stop posting if that's the verdict. Larry
 
Larry, no one wants you to leave the forum. You are a valuable member with a lot of experience and a well developed style. I have learned a lot from you, and I think for makers who want to learn a classic style that very few members of this forum know any more, you are the best source for it. And I fully understand where you are coming from. I dont think anyone is annoyed by your point.

If you were bothered by my postings I would hope you would send me a PM or an email or message a moderator. In my eyes a public forum should be the last place to air a grievance if all direct methods failed. I think its a little unfair to never bring this up to me or ask me to not make any posts before making what I consider something of a public personal attack.

LARRYZ10 said:
Should I please explain why I called out someone who hasn't done "Jack"to me. I guess the answer is that it has been on my mind for a long time. I, like most of you have been deluged by advertising for a long time an I got irritated by the blatant promotion for Wood sales over a long period that I finally snapped and wrote what I knew what would cause me to be reviled by many members of the forum. Yes , I knew I would be roasted for picking on this young man. Is the name of this subforum "wood for sale"? If the moderator will tell me that I'm out of line then I will go away. Is that fair enough? I will stop posting if that's the verdict. Larry
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Greenberg shows up every few weeks asking stuff about building a business and offering info about wood. There are hundreds of posts here. Read the ones that interest you and quit clicking on the ones that don't. Greenburgs posts have helped me understand how to cut burl and I have searched a lot here about stabilizing wood.

Keep up what you are doing Greenberg. There are lots of people who are interested in your posts about wood. If they weren't they wouldn't keep commenting on them.

Personally I think this thread was unfair. I dislike it when people air their gripes and stir stuff up through social media instead of taking up the issue through pm with people who can do something about it (moderator) or with the person they have a problem with. This could have been done better.
 
LARRYZ10 said:
It seems that "blade smith questions and answers" has slowly morphed into the Greenberg woods advertising site. Why do knife makers pay good money for their membership in the forum just to be sold woods by one supplier? Am I an unreasonable person? Maybe so. Just tell me before I send more money to participate in this forum. I have never run promotions for my knives as I think it would be unacceptable and tacky. Maybe I'm the one who should just shut up and find another forum . Larry
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i agree with you. there is a proper sub-forum for wood give aways and what kind do you like? and such https://www.bladeforums.com/forums/for-sale-knifemaking-supplies-tools.765/
 
OK, I'll step in here.

From The Moderator

I have in the past advised Ben to slack off a bit on his threads about, "What do you want", "would you like this", etc. Most of the time he does.
However, unless he posts prices and makes sales on the thread, his posting about knife making materials is completely in line with the Shop Talk rules.

Dealer/Providers pay considerably more to have some privileges that knifemaker members and basic members don't. They pay $350 for the same basic package you pay $75 for. The biggest difference is they are allowed to openly say that their prime reason for being here is as a dealer/provider.

In Ben's defense, he has done extensive research on woods and has had access to some pretty sophisticated equipment as well as reference materials and advise as he worked on his chemistry degree and minored in metallurgy.
I have asked him in the past to keep all sales offers, like 10% off, etc., in The Exchange ... and he does.

In Larry's defense, he is not the first person to have angst over Ben's regular business related posting.

Larry, It might have been better to contact Ben directly, and/or to contact me or another moderator with your concerns. When someone has done that in the past, I have contacted the person they had a complaint about and tried to deal with the situation without public post wars.

Ben, I will publicly ask you to tone down your giveaways and sales related probes to no more than one a month. You are invited and encouraged to give all the advice you do and help people who have wood questions.

A good example to follow is Fred Rowe. He has a great product in his bubble jig system. He used to post giveaways and info in Shop Talk regularly. He kept them spaced out, and now has moved most of the sales related threads and giveaways to The Exchange. He still introduces new changes and advice on using the Bubble Jig in shop talk. When he has a giveaway, he makes a Shop Talk thread informing people of it and does all the business work in The Exchange.

Another good example is Charles at Atlas Tool and Forge. He gives away forges, burners, and lots of related advice. He does the giveaways spaced out pretty far, so it isn't a problem.

Ben - Let's put all future giveaways in The Exchange. You are free to post a thread in Shop Talk telling about the giveaway. Just keep all the "In in" posting in the exchange.

Any further discussion on this subject should be kept in PM, email, and other non- open forum methods. I am locking this thread, but not removing it. I may bump it once to make sure all people read it. Everyone is free to PM or email me with their thoughts.
 
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