i want to learn how to make knives

[Coldbore]

ok so I've always been a gun guy...and totally fascinated with how they work and operate. Then, recently, I've begun to take a liking to knives. On top of that I've always wanted to get involved in a craft. I've been in sales all my working life and have had a successful career and it's ok but, as I mentioned, I've always wanted to learn a craft/trade. I'm not going into this thinking I'm going to be the next best thing in custom knife makers but i would like to know where i can go to get some information to begin learning how to forge metal and begin making my own knives as a hobby.

If there are books that you can recommend or if taking a metal working shop class at a community college is a good way to start let me know. Like I said I just got into this knife thing and am totally fascinated at the art of the blade and blade making. The best thing is my wife is totally in support of this as she's always thought that a for as creative person as I am I should put it to work.

Thank you for your insight. Most of all thank you for the inspiration!

 

[12345678910]

The Count's Standard Reply to New Knifemakers V30

The answer to a 13 year old student is different than a 60 year old machinist
We have members worldwide, you may have a local supplier, hammerin or helpful neighbour.
Please join our community and fill out your profile with location (Country, State, City), age, education, employment and hobbies so we get a sense of where and who you are.

Look at the threads stuck to the top of the page.

The basics in the simplest terms
Absolute Cheapskate Way to Start Making Knives-Printable PDF-Right Click and Save http://www.2shared.com/document/hk4wQruA/Absolute_Cheapskate_Way_to_Sta.html
http://www.prepperlinks.net/uploads/9/0/4/0/9040002/making_simple_knives.pdf
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3622507/Jones-Scott-Jonesy-Absolute-Cheapskate-Way-to-Start-Making-Knives


Web Tutorials
Detailed instructions by Stacy E. Apelt http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=694673

The Things I Advise New Knife Makers Against-Printable PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?8og1ix21j9dcz4n

Handle Tutorial - Nick Wheeler-PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?02ra4do6xyzayeq

Bob Egnath how to http://www.engnath.com/manframe.htm

Books
A list of books and videos http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9435307&postcount=43

BladeForums - E-books or Google books http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Books I like:
David Boye-Step by Step Knifemaking
Tim McCreight-Custom Knifemaking: 10 Projects from a Master Craftsman
Clear, well organized, widely available and inexpensive.

Knife Design:
Think thin. Forget swords, saw-tooth spines, guthooks, crazy grinds and folders for your first knife.

Start with a drawing and show us, we love to comment on photos.
Then make a cardboard cutout template & draw in handles, pins and such.
Use playdough to shape a comfortable handle, good handles are not flat.

How to post a photo
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...AL-Displaying-your-photographs-on-BladeForums

Google books thread for Lloyd Harding drawings, Loveless book & Bob Engnath Patterns. http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=603203

Bob Engnath Patterns in a PDF http://www.mediafire.com/?qgx7yebn77n77qx


Forging Books:
Lorelei Sims-The Backyard Blacksmith - A modern book with colour photos - forging - no knifemaking.

Jim Hrisoulas- Check for the cheaper paperback editions.
The Complete Bladesmith: Forging Your Way to Perfection
The Pattern-Welded Blade: Artistry in Iron
The Master Bladesmith: Advanced Studies in Steel

Machine Shop Basics -Books:
Elementary Machine Shop Practice-Printable PDF Http://www.archive.org/download/elementarymachin00palmrich/elementarymachin00palmrich.pdf

The Complete Practical Machinist-Printable -1885-PDF http://ia700309.us.archive.org/6/items/completepractic00rosegoog/completepractic00rosegoog.pdf
Right Click and save link as.
It’s being reprinted now if you prefer paper books

The $50 knife Shop
This book has a great title, but is NOT gospel. It confused me for a long time.
Forging is NOT necessary; you can file and grind to create a knife (stock removal)

Forget the Goop Quench BS, Even back when they used whale oil, it was still liquid oil.
Use a commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
Grocery store canola oil works for some steels like 1084.

Junkyard steel requires skill and experience to identify and heat treat it properly.
Forget Lawnmower blades and railroad spike, start with a new known steel.
Good heat treating needs accurate temperature control and full quench.
You can buy proper steel like 1084FG from Aldo very cheaply, and quench in Canola.

Cable damascus is an advanced project has no place in a beginner’s book.

The grinders are the best thing about this book, but 2x72” belt grinders free plans are now on the web.


Videos

Don't be this guy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEOTtslHARQ

Heat Treating Basics Video-downloadable
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.archive.org/download/gov.ntis.ava08799vnb1/ava08799vnb1_512kb.mp4

Safety-video
Right click and save this. Watch it once a day for 10 days. http://www.howtomakeaknife.net/FreeStuff/SafetyVideo.wmv

Many knifemaking videos are available, some better than others.

The best beginner videos I have seen:
“Steve Johnson-Making a Sub-Hilt Fighter”

"Ed Caffrey - Basic Bladesmithing-Full DVD-ISO"

“Custom Knife Sheaths -Chuck Burrows - Wild Rose”
-(Paul Long has 2 videos, his sheath work & videos are fantastic, but more advanced-with inlays, machine stitching)

Green Pete's Free Video
Making a Mora bushcraft knife, stock removal, hand tools, neo tribal / unplugged heat treat.
Use a piece of known steel, not a file. This as an example of doing it by hand with few tools.
"Green Pete" posted it free using torrent files.
Be sure to look at the other titles I mentioned too - spend some time searching.

Greenpete Knifemaking Basics-on TPB
http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/499...femaking_Basics_-_Make_a_Mora_Bushcraft_Knife

How to download that video
http://www.utorrent.com/help/guides/beginners-guide

See a list of videos for rent and read the reviews, Some are good, some bad, expect to wait weeks or months

http://smartflix.com/store/category/9/Knifemaking

Draw Filing Demonstration
YouTube video -Draw Filing-for a flat finish http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dec78RQsokw

Steel
The “welding steel” at Home Depot / Lowes… is useless for knives.
Forget about lawnmower blades ,files and other unknown junkyard steels.
For all the work involved, it is very cheap to buy and use a known good steel.

If you send out for heat treating, you can use
Oil quenched O1, 1095, 1084
Or air quenched A2, CM154, ATS34, CPM154, 440C, plus many others.

For heat treating yourself with minimal equipment, find some Eutectoid steel and quench in Canola oil.
1084FG sold by Aldo Bruno is formulated for Knifemaking, Cheapest & made for DIY heat-treat.
http://njsteelbaron.com/
Phone # 862-203-8160

Suppliers List
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=699736

Heat Treating
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9143684&postcount=7

You can send blades out for heat treating at $10 or $15 per blade for perfect results, and avoid buying the equipment.

Air Hardening Stainless Steel Only
Buck Pau Bos -Be sure to check the Shipping and Price tabs.
http://www.buckknives.com/index.cfm?event=bio.paulBos#
http://www.texasknife.com/vcom/privacy.php#services

Oil Hardening Carbon Steels and Air Hardening Stainless Steel
http://www.petersheattreat.com/cutlery.html
http://www.knifemaker.ca/ (Canadian)

FAQ's
http://www.hypefreeblades.com/faq.html

1095 is a good carbon steel, but a bad choice for a beginner with limited equipment.
1095 is "Hypereutectioid" and needs very precise temperature control and proper fast quench oil Like Parks 50 or Houghton K
Kevin Cashen - 1095 - hypereutectoid steel http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/673173-Working-the-three-steel-types

If you are sending one or 2 knives out for heat treatment, use 154-CM or CPM-154 or CPM-s35vn and ship it out to TKS -Texas Knifemaker Supply
It's the cheapest way to do 1 or 2 because of HT minimum charges.

(Darrin Sanders now offers HT on single blades in oil hardening steels)

Quenchants for Oil hardening steel
Forget the Goop Quench and Motor oil.

Use commercial quench oil & match oil speed to the steel type;
The best explanation and classification oil speeds I've seen
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?28197-Hardening-II-Quenching

Grocery store canola oil works well enough for your first knife-if you use the right steel like 1084

Brine and water are cheap, and technically correct for "water hardening" steels W1 and 1095 but a fast oil like Parks 50 or Houghton Houghto Quench K are less likely to give you broken blades
If you use water or brine, expect to hear a "tink" and have a cracked or broken blade

Glue – Epoxy
Use a new package of slow setting 30 min to 1 hour, high strength epoxy to attach blades to handles and seal out moisture.
Slow epoxy is stronger and gives you time to work with it.
Surface Prep is vital, drill tang holes/ grind a hollow, roughen the surfaces with abrasive or blasting is best.
Ensure the surface is clean and no oil including fingerprints.
Use Acetone & Alcohol, or Blasting.
Don't' over clamp to avoid a “glue starved joint” when all the adhesive is squeezed out.
Use:
Brownell's Acraglas
West Systems G Flex
JB Weld


Grinder / Tools

Hand Tools
You can do it all by hand with files and abrasive cloth like the Green Pete video.
Just use 1084 instead of a file.

Stacy - 10 Tools
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1049666-Ten-Tools?p=11983527#post11983527

Photo of a nice bevel filing jig
http://www.flemingknives.com/imagesPrime/FileStation/KPicB007.jpg
Http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8486/8152684286_312b9fc8da_b.jpg


Grinders
In my opinion, variable speed and a small wheel attachment are essential on a good grinder.
You can almost always improve tracking with more belt tension. It needs to be way tighter than you first think.

Entry Level Grinders
Sears Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00921513000P?prdNo=3

Low Speed Modification Craftsman 2x42 belt grinder http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qfYT_m2Tw0


Commercial Production 2 x 72” Belt Grinder Reviews
http://www.prometheanknives.com/shop-techniques-3/grinders
http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCKnifeMakingGrinders.htm


DIY 2 x 72” Belt Grinders

KMG Clone Free Plans
http://www.dfoggknives.com/PDF/GrinderPlans.pdf

NWG No Weld Grinder
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/plans-for-the-no-weld-grinder-sander-nearly-50-pages-p-723.html

EERF Grinder (EERF =“Free” backwards)
http://www.wilmontgrinders.com/Pages/EERFGrinder.aspx
http://blindhogg.com/blueprints.html

Buy the kit
http://polarbearforge.com/grinder_kit.html

What Belts to buy?
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/abrasive-belt-basics-what-kind-should-i-buy-p-1393.html



VFD Variable Speed made simple

Step pulleys are not as cheap as you may think
Maska cast steel pulleys are good and well balanced $75 EACH here plus shaft, bearings, belt

It all adds up to about 1/2 the price of a KBAC-27D

I like direct drive with no belts using a VFD and 3 phase motor for about $200 over the price of the step pulleys with much finer control.

Yes you can get cheaper NEMA 1 VFD’s and build your own enclosure
You may find them cheaper at other retailers and on Ebay direct from china.

Wayne Coe
http://www.waynecoeartistblacksmith.com/Motors___VFDs.html

VFD-
KBAC-27D

Motor
3 phase 220v 1.5 HP motor, TEFC, frame 56 or 56C,
RPM is up to you many are happy with a 1700 RPM running at double speed.
Make sure it has a footed base for the KMG and NWG, or a C flange face mount for Bader, Bee, Wilton and GIB styles.
I get them on ebay, even with paying $80 for shipping to Canada I save $$$ on a used motor.

The 1.5 HP combination is the most common, as reported by Rob Frink
It allows you to plug into any 110vac, 15 amp outlet.
A 2 HP motor requires a 220vac input.

There are cheaper VFD units like the TECO, but the only VFD I have found that will run a 1.5 HP motor on a 110v 15 amp input is the KBAC27D

It is NEMA4, sealed from metal dust that can burnout the unit.
It has good community and company support, manuals, hook-up diagrams, photos and settings on Rob Frink’s website.

I like the fact that I can buy it from a local distributor in Canada.

Travis W reports running a 2 HP on a 110v circuit, but I haven’t tried it.

Hookup is dead simple
http://www.beaumontmetalworks.com/VS-setup.html


Safety Equipment
Protect your -Eyes, Ears, Fingers, and Lungs – remove jewellery and use safety gear.

Respirators
Chronic lung disease and cancer really suck the joy out of life.
Goggle "Ed Caffrey lung cancer"
Wearing a mask on the top of your head doesn't count.

The minimum I would consider are silicone half masks with a P100 Filter
3M 7500
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediaw...Ox_Uev7qe17zHvTSevTSeSSSSSS--&fn=CH7500FP.pdf

and North 7700
http://www.amazon.com/North-Safety-770030L-Silicone-Respirator/dp/B002C08YCW
http://www.amazon.com/North-7580P100-P100-Particulate-Cartridge/dp/B000UH6PSE/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_img_b.

Use a VOC & P100 combo cartridge for protection against acetone and solvents.
Prefilters can snap over the main filter for longer life.
There are 3 sizes, buy one in person at a safety supplier and get it fitted.

For beards, pick one of these
3M PAPR
Resp-O-Rator
3m Breathe Easy
Trend Airshield Pro
Air Cap II


Searching

This Google page searches BF and works well.
http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

Can I get rich making knives ?
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...knife-making-worth-it?p=11980504#post11980504

V30 June 3, 2013
Darrin Sander is no longer HT blades.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1074496-I-m-no-longer-heat-treating-blades

 

[Coldbore]

wow! one stop shop. Thank you very much 12345678910

 

[Darrin Sanders]

I suggest that you read all the counts info. listed above and also read here in shop talk on a regular basis. There is a vast array of knowlwdge here. I would also suggest that you start by putting the handles on a few finished blades as you gain the tools and knowledge to make your own blades. Use my contact info. below to send me an email and I will send you a finished blade, some decent handle material, and some pin stock to finish it. All you will need is some tools, some epoxy, & some elbow grease and you'll have a finished blade. I will also talk you through any problems you may have along the way. Once finished you will also know whether you want to continue with the craft or find something else. Let me know what you think.

 

[ERIK KNIVES]

also, when you have a particular question, bookmark and use this link:

http://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=011197018607028182644:qfobr3dlcra

It's a bladeforums search tool powered by Google and it is awesome. Most questions you may have are already answered, so try to use it - although, we all get lazy sometimes.

On that note, Google has a neat trick that will allow you to search any forum without a password (as far as I can tell).

Search anything, for example search: dog tricks site:bladeforums.com You get this: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/963296-Training-Cats-to-do-Tricks

Google search "dog tricks" site:bladeforums.com You get this: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/534281-Clean-jokes/page21

 

[JCoutts]

Wow! Count, I got one paragraph into your reply and went right back up to the top to subscribe so that I always have this information available. Coldbore, Thanks for asking the question to get all this information, it is a huge help to me as well. I, too am a gun guy wanting to get into making knives so this thread was perfect! If you ever want to chat on some guns, shoot me a message.

Jake

 

[Carl_First_Timer]

Yeah reading all that info, asking some detailed questions about the info then reading it again is the way to go. Good luck! Feel free to PM me if you get stuck. I will help if I can or point you in the right direction for a more experienced answer. :thumbup:

 

[Salem Straub]

Welcome to the craft! What can I say, the Count covers it all pretty well there. I also second the suggestion to hang around here to learn. Also, I live over in Tonasket, so if you are ever over this way, or if you'd like to come by for a shop visit or weekend class some time, contact me- info is at my site. Lots of general bladesmithing tutorial stuff at my site as well, many of my WIPs and grinding/grinders tips etc. Check my sig for the link.

 

[james terrio]

Welcome!

If there are books that you can recommend or if taking a metal working shop class at a community college is a good way to start let me know.

Lots of excellent links/resources have already been listed. "Where to start" will depend to a large degree on your experience with tools and craftsmanship in general. It's never a bad idea to seek out personal instruction and inspiration, whether it's a class about general shop practices or a demonstration by a skilled furniture maker or a visit with an experienced knifemaker, or anything in-between. :thumbup:

I submit that many makers start with finished "kit" blades and build handles for them, to wet their toes in these deep waters at little cost, and see if they'd like to dive in further. That approach worked very well for me.

 

[quint]

I started that way as well, got a couple of blanks from Gene Martin. They are HT'd and close to finished but you still need to sand them to final finish and touch up anything you want. The bolsters are rough fit so it gives you some experience shaping them and attaching everything. Its a fun experience to start off with. His blanks are high quality as well.

 

[grizzled gizzard]

I got started by apprenticing myself to a couple Master Smiths.

It's not the cheapest way, but IMHO, by far the fastest route.

I would jump at the chance to take a course with Salem Straub.

There's nothing like first hand experience.

 

[Brian Ayres]

For classes there's Dave Lisch and Studio 4 Forging in Seattle. I HIGHLY recommend shop time with a real maker.

Dave will get you set foundationally. The rest would then be up to you. I started this in much the same way. Wanting to make stuff. Learn a craft. It's a huge part of my life now and I couldn't be happier.

Good luck! Lots of great makers. Take a drive over to visit Salem too! It'll be worth your gas costs ten times over.

 

[J. Hoffman]

Coldbore, you kind of sound like me. I've always been a big fan of guns, but collecting them is a rich mans game (and I'm not a rich man). I stopped collecting guns and went to try to learn a craft. I wanted to be able to make something that could show off my skills (or at this point, lack of skills). I enjoy knifemaking, and each one is a little bit better than the last. I learn something with each one.

Do lots of reading here, and follow tips from the many talented people here. Ask questions if you can't find the answer in a search. Good luck and have fun.

 

[crocogator106]

Great question Coldbore and awesome answer. I am new to knifemaking as well. I have had a fascination with blades in general for years and have been a somewhat amateur knife collector for several years. I recently ( about a month ago) got interested in making kydex sheaths for knives. This has progressed into wanting to make knives myself. I have been ordering some tools here and there to help with making knives. I have exhausted and watched youtube videos and read everything I can find on knife making. I recently found a guy in Canada who sells knife blanks which he forges. They are heat treated and tempered and ready for scales and final finishing. I have a few ordered along with wood and micarta scale material. I also have some pins and other stuff ordered from knifeworks. Just waiting to get everything together to start my first build. I have been in law enforcement for about 19 years and I wanted to start a hobby in which I might could make a little money after I retire. Especially since I'm not too far from it . I have also done alot of research on etching my knives after they are complete. Anyway a big thanks to all you guys in the forums for your help and guidance.

 

[Darrin Sanders]

Coldbore, I finally have your blank ready. I lost your email address so please send me another one with your address included.

 

[Brett Mathews]

Coldbore if your in the Portland area ever your welcome to come over for a day or two and get some shop time in and a grinding lesson. There are tons of great makers in 150 mile radius of you and most are open to help a new maker out.

 

[rjfm1972]

Coldbore, ironically I decided to get into making knives right around the same time you started this thread. I found that when I google searched a lot of the info I needed to know, this forum came up in the search results. So of course I signed up. I have already gotten many good answers as a member as well to new questions. Ironic also is the fact that I have been into guns previously, and was thinking about getting into gunsmithing as well. I have the advantage of working in a machine shop for the last 22 years, so I have been able to grind some blades there. The main things I am missing in my home shop now are a good belt sander, drill press, and an anvil. They are all on my wish list. I have only finished one knife so far, but hope to have a couple more done by next weekend. Good luck! I hope you enjoy doing this as much as I have so far! below are pics of a custom rifle stock I made, and my first knife! I know my skills still need a lot of honing (forgive the pun), but I like to go all in when I decide to do something. I hope you go for it as well!

 

[Darrin Sanders]

If anyone knows how to get in touch with Coldbore please let him know I have his blade ready.