I want to learn to sharpen knives but don't know where to start

M

metroplexchl

Joined
May 12, 2013
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Sorry for the newbie interuption.

I'm a firearms instructor, and have been into knives as a side project only. Knives...to me... have been purely utilitarian. I recently took a self defense class focusing on knives about a year ago and have since been taking knives much more seriously. Afterwards, I looked at my mass collection of pocket and fixed blades knives and realized a couple of things.

First, I realized how I created a bad habit of collecting a new knife when the one i was carrying starting dulling. Second, I looked back and realized the massive amount of dull knives I had that needed sharpening. I'm tired of disposable (and freakin' expensive) knives. I want to learn how to sharpen knives...and I'm serious about it.

Google/Bing searches revealed (predictably) a vast amount of info that assumes one knows and really understand terms like bevel, apex, refinement vs sharp, etc.

I don't.

I can get a knife sharp, but I want to learn how to really sharpen knives in a quality way. Is there a DVD or online class that I can get to teach me from the beginning? I don't care if it's a series or a class. I don't mind getting some equipment, but I don't want to go pro or anything and get a full shop's worth of equipment.

Where do I start?
 
What kind of knife do you want to sharpen?

What equipment do you have currently?
 
Tough question....

Blades I want to sharpen: anything from lower end stuff like Cold Steel and CRKT knives to mid-quality stuff like SOG, Zero Tolerance, Benchmade, et al. Up till now, I've always bought knives in the $50 - $200 range if that helps with understanding where the quality of my knives are.

Equpiment I have: Really tough question...i have several of the basic knife stones that come with knives, several "kits" that have been given to me at shooting competitions/shoots/classes/etc, a couple of those wooden bases with the white stone rods that stick up in a "V", etc. The kind of thing that the average guy can go to Walmart and find....

I see that those tools that I have will all be able to put "an edge" on my knives. What I want to learn is the anatomy of a blade and how to put an edge on it that is quality. I read the sticky's up top, but they assume a certain amount of knowledge.....what the hell is a bevel? What is an "apex"? I started at the the sticky's, and they made me realize that I need a place that is more "Beginner" than that. Any idiot like me can run a knife along a stone, but how does one become Good at sharpening knives?

This is probably a 5 minute discussion at first, but I'm looking for someone to give me that 5 minutes to explain a couple of things (be it via forum chat or DVD or whatever). Then I want to go to the next level and learn to really do it well. Don't mind getting some basic equipment if need be.
 
Practice is key. As for equipment, you'll need a coarse stone, a fine stone, a magic marker, a piece of wood, and maybe some felt or other fuzzy cloth. For a coarse and fine stone, I generally recommend an 8" Norton coarse/fine combination stone. Both grits on one stone, just swap sides. Norton is a well known brand and you can find them on line, at Grainger, or at woodworking shops. If you already have a coarse and fine stone, no need to buy more stuff.

Some definitions:
Bevel-this is the shiny part along the cutting edge of your knife. It is the part you will be rubbing against the stone. Its generally about 1/16" wide, but that will vary with the knife and how its sharpened.

Apex-this is the actual cutting edge at the very point where the bevels meet. When you feel an edge with your thumb to see how sharp it is, the apex is what you are feeling for.
 
would you want to use a powered system to sharpen? if you only want to spend minutes instead of hours to sharpen, check out my paper wheel thread which is a sticky at the top of this page. for around $100. you can get set up to sharpen knives. here are a few links to check out showing some knives done on the wheels.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...e-always-done-for-free-Knife-Sharpening/page5
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=651061
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8q_eMwRaHYg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I7iDE2EBzBw
 
I have a WorkSharp and a Spyderco Sharpmaker. I use both and have taken care of all of my needs so far and both are easy to use. Also been using some home made strops lately also. I dont consider them sharp unless they shave easily.
 
metro, You sound like my Nephew's. The generation that's in their 20's now don't know beans about sharpening. It's not your fault, their dad didn't know it either and finding someone to teach them isn't easy. I'd follow Me2's advice. Then find some body's old fishing buddy that will give you the short course on it. You'll learn more from him in 10mins. than you'll learn reading here in an entire weekend. DM
 
Hey Metro,

It appears to me that you are mostly concerned about pocket knives and some tacticals.

So it seems to me that you are wanting to learn the process of sharpening. good.
Do you also care about fit and finish (f&f)? (Does putting scratches while sharpening concern you?)
Do you have special blade shapes?
If you are, then some methods (like powered) maybe better than others (free).

There are many ways to go about it, but really there are three large approaches
1) Powered: Using power tools like buffers & paper wheels
2) Assisted: Using Stones/DMT's with assisted jigs (Sharpmaker, Edge pro, Wicked edge, etc.)
3) Free hand: Using only stones/DMT's.

I've only used Free hand extensively, and can only speak to that.
I can carry this thread until you are proficient if you choose that route.
There are many posts here about 1 & 2, and plenty of people willing to help.

Lingo's are important because it helps us to communicate efficiently and accurately.
But physics is much more important.
In my head there's only two aspects to getting a knife sharp / usable.
1) The very (bleeding) edge: The edge that makes first contact whatever you are cutting.
2) Metal behind the edge: Sometimes called the geometry or grind.
When you can work proficiently to control these two,
then you'll have become a proficient sharpener.

There are many videos on Youtube that are helpful.
I've searched a few just now, and there are some really bad ones out there.
Avoid ones from expertvillage or MrEZCooking and the likes.
To get you started, here is a nice introduction from Bob Kramer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFhMGJYhYpU

There are many more videos and steps that I can recommend, but let's start slow.
Let us know what kind of sharpening you are interested in.
And we can help you further.
Thanks and good luck.
 
The kramer recommendation was good but I laughed when you mentioned MrEZcooking. That guy will teach you all about doing things the wrong way.
 
knifenut1013 said:
The kramer recommendation was good but I laughed when you mentioned MrEZcooking. That guy will teach you all about doing things the wrong way.
Click to expand...

Precisely. Why he has 200k+ views on some of his videos are beyond me.

I should have put bold on the "avoid" part.
 
There are lots of videos on how to sharpen. They don't tell you things like how many strokes to make, how much pressure to use, etc. It takes experience to learn those things and I'm somewhat of a beginner still myself. If you have a lot of knives then you have a lot of opportunity for practice. You can also buy cheap kitchen knives from a second hand store and practice on those.

I'll tell my experience and maybe it will give you some insight:
I used small "whetstones" when I was young. I don't know that I ever got a blade very sharp.
After seeing demonstrations at the local state fair I bought a generic system using crocksticks set in angled holes in a wooden base. Again I don't know if I ever got a blade sharp.
I got tired of all that and bought a Sharpmaker. I managed to sharpen a few blades but I worked hard on a lot of blades with no improvement. In my case I didn't know the secret of using an ink marker on the edge and checking to see what the angle was on the factory bevels. During this time period I was buying a lot of knives and by the time one went dull I had already bought another new knife to carry.
Reading this forum I learned to check the angles, and found that most of my knives had steeper angles than the sharpmaker and this kept me from sharpening the actual edge, plus the sharpmaker is not abrasive enough to really do reprofiling.
This year I bought a DMT aligner, a guided system with diamond stones. I can get the angles that I want, and with the diamond stones it isn't too much work to reprofile a knife that has bad angles. I got my knives sharp enough for my normal use, but not sharp by forum standards. I couldn't cleanly cut paper for instance. Then after reading a lot about strops I make a simple strop attachment for my DMT and this took my sharpness to another level. I can get my knives sharp enough to easily slice thin paper. (I posted a thread about this recently.)

After the benefit of my experience, I recommend buying a guided system with diamond stones, like the DMT. I have heard of other similar systems such as the Lansky but I don't know much about them. I also recommend learning how to strop. After you do this you will know a lot about sharpening and if you wish you can go on to learning freehand sharpening with a variety of different stones, or you can get a powered system such as a 1" belt sander or a grinder with paper wheels.
 
I was in a similar situation as you. I started out with the Sharpmaker, then got the Edge Pro (helpful as a reference point for the results you can get) and then went on to sandpaper and water stones.

I recommend getting Murray Carter's (cartercutlery.com) Blade Sharpening Fundamentals (DVD or download) and two good budget water stones (or a combination stone, or at least one #1000 stone). Then start with kitchen knives or knives that are "expendable". Keep in mind that flattening blades (especially flat ground blades) will look like crap until the blade is completely flat (which it often isn't to start with). As for finding the angle, I found a video by the guy who owns (?) Global knives doing a demonstration on sharpening on stones and he showed a grip that gives ~15 degrees per side. The knives I enjoy sharpening most using the method described in the video are laminated, thin, sabre ground Japanese carbon steel kitchen knives (not as expensive as it sounds, they're actually pretty cheap).

The instruction video is very motivating and I think you could dive head first into freehand sharpening.

edit: Murray Carter has sample clips from the instructional video on his youtube channel. Videos 11-14 in this playlist are from Blade Sharpening Fundamentals -> http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9E3C18FBC2002035

In addition to MC's video, you might want to look up more information about the "burr". How to feel it with your fingers and how to remove it.
 
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Metro, if youhave a stone or two, and it sounds like you do, then you already have what you need to sharpen a knife. But first, forget all that stuff about angle, micro bevels, apex, and the rest of it. To sharpen a knife, put all that out of your mind, because it is complicating things too much. JUst like instinctive archery, drivng a car, or tossing a wadded up ball of paper in the trash can. When you ride a bicycle, are you calculating how much the wheels are turning, and how much gyro effect they are giving you? No, your not. Just like trying to slice a thin layer off the surface of a stone, is a simple act, and is governed by instinct.

Take one of your stones, and lay it on a flat surface. Then take a dull knife, mark the edge with a dry erase marker, and lay the blade on the stone at 90 degrees, like the stone is a cheese, and your going to slice right down through it to cut it in half. Then lay the knife over one half the distance to the surface. That gives you about 45 degrees. Cut that distance in half, and your about there. Go and slice off the top of the stone. Look at the marker on the edge. Don't worry about if your edge is 24 degrees, or 23 or even 25 degrees. People get to over obsessed over hair whittling edges, and then can't go break down a cardboad box or three, and touch up the blade on the bottom of a coffee mug. By the way, the unglazed ring on the bottom of a coffee mug makes an excellent knife sharpener.

If you think you can't maintain a consistent angle, then just use the small circle method. Lay the blade on the stone at 'about' the one half of the one half way I told you of, then without lifting the knife edge off the stone, start honing in small circles, starting at the base of the blade, and slowly working your way up to the tip. Take about a minute at least to get there. Look at the marking on the edge. Then do this on the other side of the blade, and alternate. The small circle method is a good one to learn to sharpen on because you are not breaking contact with the edge during the sharpening. When I was a kid, this is the way our scoutmaster taught us to sharpen our scout knives. We always had our knives good and sharp this way on the old style gray carborundum stone that was our 'Official' boy scout sharpening stone. I've went back to my roots, as a few years back I was going through a box of old stuff in the attic, and found my old boy scout stone, and just for yuks used it. I was surprised at how well it did. With light pressure and a stropping on the back of an old belt, it got hair shaving sharp in a few minutes.

If you think you are going to have the knife as a backup to your firearm, then don't go to a polished edge. A toothy course edge will slice through loose cloth and flesh better. A knife with a 3 or 4 inch blade is not a 3 foot samurai sword with a lot of momentum and mass driving it. With only a couple of inches of steel, it needs to bite into loose cloth fast and get through it.

All these gadgets and gizmos are made for the sole purpose of getting your money out of your pocket and into the pocket of the people who make and sell these things. If you just want to get your knives sharp, you don't need them. If you learn to sharpen free hand, you will be able to sharpen your knife anywhere, at any time. As a firearms instructor, you must know the value of being able to field strip and maintain your firearm anywhere. How to field strip and use anything from a piece of string with a loop on the end to pull a patch through the barrel, to a bandana to get it clean. Same with a knife. There's no magic or deep complex thing about sharpening, except to those who wish to make it so, to sell sharpening stuff that is not needed. All you really need is a decent stone, and some practice. It sounds like you already have the stone.

Carl.
 
And here is Jackknife showing what he wrote above:
[video=youtube;SEMLu8e34ck]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEMLu8e34ck&list=PLtzZXHg-rLn9lhijueT8dVve6wQ4rGkDg&index=2[/video]
 
I would soooo love to redo that video. When we shot it, it was at a picnic table across from the restaurant in Sykeville that we had lunch at. It didn't seem noisy at the time, but it was very windy, and afterward I realized the mic picked up the noise of every sinbgle truck that went by. :eek::eek:

But the major thing I wanted to get across was, this ain't rocket science, and you can get a knife shaving sharp in a few minutes with almost nothing.

Carl.
 
I am a beginner at knife sharpening. However, any video that take a very sharp knife and dulls it in 5 seconds in order to sharpen it again seems to be a "parlor" trick. The bevel has been well established and only the edge is rolled over or dull. My moms old kitchen knives that have been abused and battered would be a real challenge for a coffee mug!

Correct me if I am wrong but I am not impresses by those videos.
 
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