I'd like your feedback on a couple topics: Search, Subforums, Banner Ads

Spark

HPIC - Hatas gonna Hate
Staff member
Administrator
Super Mod
Moderator
Joined
Oct 2, 1998
Messages
15,223
With the upcoming move we're going to have a lot of capabilities that we haven't had before; the cloud based architecture will supposedly let us upgrade or downgrade our hardware as needed to meet the needs of the site. We were supposed to have this capability with the current host, but the less said about our current situation, the better. So let's cover a couple topics that have been kicking around in my head for a while.

First thing is search. By and large, search is the crappiest thing about the vBulletin software. For a site this size, search is nothing but problems. People have suggested an alternative, namely Sphinx search, which many similarly sized (or larger) sites use with great success. The main problem with using Sphinx is that we'll lose a couple features, namely sorting by last post time, which I don't think anyone actually uses. The upside is that we'll see much faster response times on the forums themselves, search times will be sped up exponentially, and most importantly the forums shouldn't lock up. Various reports state that the server load using Sphinx is decreased so much that you need essentially half the hardware, but I'll believe that when I see it.

If the search performance is increased while server loads are greatly decreased, I see no reason not to open search back up to all members, not just paid subscriptions. This will benefit sellers, as buyers will be able to find their ads much faster and easier. The flip side of this is that we may see a reduction of paying memberships, so who knows. It could wind up with a net increase as more registered users will find the site "useable" and want to help us stay open. If anyone has thoughts on this, let me know.

With that in mind, if the server loads are lessened, I'll see no reason not to open up a bunch of new subforums. Photography has been mentioned, as well as cooking, and other tangentially knife-related subjects. I've long said that this is BladeForums not EverythingUnderTheSunForums, but as I get older, I realize I need to compromise more, and if you guys want stuff, there's really no reason for me not to be flexible. So, if you have specific suggestions, I'd love to hear them. Be reasonable.

Finally, let's talk banner ads. Personally, I hate them. It's a very rare thing for me to click on a banner ad and buy something, but that's me. At the same time, there've been no shortage of companies who have made offers of purchasing ad space on this site. I've resisted them over the years because I like an uncluttered forum space. At the same time, however, I have to be realistic - the paid subscriptions here do not cover all the bills we have.

There are very few sites out there our size that aren't somehow monetizing their userbase; off the top of my head I can readily name 5 that are in this same industry that have banners going and are much smaller than BFC; the ones that our size and don't have much bigger bankrolls behind them than what I can muster.

I mentioned before that I don't like compromising, but I have to face reality. We get a lot of traffic. A shocking amount. Of that, the vast majority is from people who do not have paid subscriptions. The people who support this site, do so without having to be begged, scolded, or even asked to. There's no reason for you guys to see banners.

The people who don't get paid subscriptions have their reasons, but by and large there's no reason for them to help us indirectly. As such, I really don't feel guilty in using those people to help monetize the site itself; if they aren't contributing voluntarily to help keep the site open with a paid subscription, they really aren't in a position to complain about any advertising we use to recoup server & bandwidth expenses. Please give me your thoughts on putting in banner ads that would only be visible to registered users (members without paid subscriptions), and unregistered guests browsing the forums, and not to members with paid subscriptions.

As always, thanks for your patience and support throughout the years. We're 12 years old this year, and you guys are uniformly great. I love having a community that helps people grow & become better knife users, makers, purchasers & the rest. It's amazing to see someone go from being vaguely interested, to becoming a knifemaker, to having their designs picked up by a major manufacturer. Thanks for letting us be a part of that.
 
Spark, I detest banner ads and pop-up ads (and I'm in the ad biz — go figure). Having said that, I also have to say that they're simply a fact of internet life nowadays. I like the idea of them being only visible to registered members. Those of us with paying memberships support the site one way, and registered users can support it another.

To all that you've said, I say go for it: all the way!
 
Last edited:
I know im not a paying member, but Id like to be but monetary conditions at this time arent favorable to that.. But I'd like to help support the forum any way I can! I dont mind the banners too much.
 
i prefer not to see the ads.

i dont care about opening the search feature, but then again, i have always paid for a membership and had search capability.

new subforums sounds good. if they dont get traffic, you can always close them.

more importantly, i get this is part of your business. businesses should make money. If a few banner ads puts you in the black, then i have no reason to complain as id rather that than have this site shut down.

im sure you can figure a way to have a few ads that aren't too intrusive and dont take too much space.

is there a way the banners are only visible to the non paying members?
 
Spark, I detest banner ads and pop-up ads (and I'm in the ad biz — go figure). Having said that, I also have to say that they're simply a fact of internet life nowadays. I like the idea of them being only visible to registered members. Those of us with paying members support the site one way, and registered users can support it another.

To all that you've said, I say go for it: all the way!

I agree 100% - I have banners on a couple other sites that are cheaper than the dealer fee for BF and I don't get half of the traffic and sales as I do from BF. I like the info i can have in my sig. and it seems to be working and bringing in traffic and some sales.
 
one of the best parts of BFC is the lack of advertisements, i detest them, i think it looks as though the site is las vegas, in the bad way. and for searchs i think they should remain to paying members, if people want to search they can use the free google search or upgrade, i think of it as an incentive, and for the subforums, if there is interest i dont mind at all. photography cooking general stuff etc, just as long as we have the majority of things stay knife related :D thanks for giving the chance to give our input spark, and thanks for having BFC,

GD
 
It would be a bad business decision to start giving away search. I would also recommend adding banner ads but limiting it 5 or less advertisers at any given time thus driving up the demand for one of the 5 spots.

Phillip
 
I’m one of the people who dislike banner adds, one of the (many) things I like about BFC is that I don’t have to see a large flashing add every time I open a page. That being said like MORIMOTOM said I’d much rather see an add then see BFC go away.

Insofar as search goes I don’t really care, though it would at least cut down on people complaining about the lack of search.
 
Spark,

I agree with the others that have posted. Banners for nonpaying members is a good trade for them to have search functionality. I would still hope to see them strategically placed so that they aren't overpowering -- which I'm certain you're considering anyway. As a paying member, I wouldn't mind a banner placed at the very bottom of the pages where they would largely be out of the way - as long as they didn't cause their own page delays. Banners = good.

I'm also for trying new forum software. Lord knows you've tried all other variables (hosting, servers, etc). I do have a question on the forum software trade-off. You mention one feature loss below:

The main problem with using Sphinx is that we'll lose a couple features, namely sorting by last post time, which I don't think anyone actually uses.

I may be misunderstanding this feature, but don't all forums sort in this way? The thread with the most recent post at the top? If this is what will change, how will this then be displayed?

Are there any other significant features that would be lost?

Thanks for allowing us to contribute with discussion on these topics. I know you don't have to, but you do. This level of respect for the members is what keeps me coming back.
 
Banner ads visible only to non-paying members are a legitimate compromise. I've seen other sites that do this: subscribe and the ads disappear. Put them on the top and/or the bottom of the page. Ads along the sides really eat into reading space.

It would be nice to have an effective search function but I usually find what I'm looking for when I turn to an outside search like Google.

New forums: we don't need a Barbie forum but food and photography bracket a lot of what we do discuss here. Many of us use knives for food more than anything else, and recipes pop up often enough that we could toss them into it, too. Photography is integral to many forums. A lot of us would benefit from one place for the experts to share techniques, equipment, and advice on how to do it.
 
About everything sounds good to me except ads. As a paying member, I do not want to see any advertising.

If I do not pay for a membership, I would expect ads and am surprised it hasn't been done already.

I think it's reasonable that non-paying members see ads to help support the site.
 
i prefer not to see the ads.

i dont care about opening the search feature, but then again, i have always paid for a membership and had search capability.

new subforums sounds good. if they dont get traffic, you can always close them.

more importantly, i get this is part of your business. businesses should make money. If a few banner ads puts you in the black, then i have no reason to complain as id rather that than have this site shut down.

im sure you can figure a way to have a few ads that aren't too intrusive and dont take too much space.

is there a way the banners are only visible to the non paying members?

+1:thumbup:

Also wouldn't mind a kitchen knife subforum
 
Getting a search function open to all would be nice. It would at least cut down on the amount of whining I see. It would be even better if it actually worked. I pretty much gave up on the search function here after about three tries. It did start working much better after it was limited.

If it is possible to have banner ads that disappear with a paid membership, I say load 'em up. It should help your cash flow and make the freeloaders useful. If nothing else, maybe it will annoy them into paying for a membership to get rid of them. As long as I don't have to look at them, the more the merrier. ;)

As for the additional sub-forums, it's your call. I only frequent about a tenth of them now, it won't bother me to ignore a bunch more.

Thanks for asking, and good luck on the move. :thumbup:
 
Search: if you have the bandwidth I don't see a problem with non payers using the function.

Subforums: if the demand is there and the capacity available I say go for it! They can always be closed if not used.

Banner Ads: I belong to another (non knife) VERY large forum that eliminates banner ads for paying members. Doesn't seem to cause problems with the non payers.

Thanks for asking for our opinions. :thumbup:
 
Huh, I thought I made this clear in my initial post:
The people who don't get paid subscriptions have their reasons, but by and large there's no reason for them to help us indirectly. As such, I really don't feel guilty in using those people to help monetize the site itself; if they aren't contributing voluntarily to help keep the site open with a paid subscription, they really aren't in a position to complain about any advertising we use to recoup server & bandwidth expenses. Please give me your thoughts on putting in banner ads that would only be visible to registered users, and not to members with paid subscriptions.

Is that more understandable? I meant that from the beginning - paid memberships wouldn't see ads.
 
If the search performance is increased while server loads are greatly decreased, I see no reason not to open search back up to all members, not just paid subscriptions. This will benefit sellers, as buyers will be able to find their ads much faster and easier. The flip side of this is that we may see a reduction of paying memberships, so who knows. It could wind up with a net increase as more registered users will find the site "useable" and want to help us stay open. If anyone has thoughts on this, let me know.

I think it's a good idea. The biggest complaint is lack of search, and if that can be remedied without slowing the site down, I'd go for it. I've never been here without the ability to search, but I can imagine it's frustrating.

The people who don't get paid subscriptions have their reasons, but by and large there's no reason for them to help us indirectly. As such, I really don't feel guilty in using those people to help monetize the site itself; if they aren't contributing voluntarily to help keep the site open with a paid subscription, they really aren't in a position to complain about any advertising we use to recoup server & bandwidth expenses. Please give me your thoughts on putting in banner ads that would only be visible to registered users, and not to members with paid subscriptions.

As I've told you before, I think it's a good idea. Those not paying really have no right to complain, and if search is enabled, they're not losing out on anything by having the ads displayed. Heck, there's a crapload of empty space up there anyway, I say use it. Personally, as long as the ads are relevant and static (not those ridiculous flash video game music playing atrocities that bug the bejeesus out of me), I have no problem seeing them as a paid member.
 
I think it is a great idea to limit the banner ads to non paying members only. As a basic member (soon to upgrade to knifemaker) I would rather not have to look at the adds. That is what is appealing about this site.

I feel the search function currently leaves alot to be desired. It is very difficult to find exactly what you are looking for, without weeding thru pages of topics you didn't search for. Anything would be an improvement over what we have in use now.
 
Banner ads visible only to non-paying members are a legitimate compromise. I've seen other sites that do this: subscribe and the ads disappear. Put them on the top and/or the bottom of the page. Ads along the sides really eat into reading space.

It would be nice to have an effective search function but I usually find what I'm looking for when I turn to an outside search like Google.

New forums: we don't need a Barbie forum but food and photography bracket a lot of what we do discuss here. Many of us use knives for food more than anything else, and recipes pop up often enough that we could toss them into it, too. Photography is integral to many forums. A lot of us would benefit from one place for the experts to share techniques, equipment, and advice on how to do it.

This sums up the way I feel, except for not having a Barbie forum. :grumpy: I could deal with ads if they weren't to crazy, like flashing or following you down the page.

No matter how it turns out, I'll keep coming back. Like you said, the community here is unique and worthwhile. Hugs all around. :D
 
Back
Top