ID steel shaft from a Ford Toploader?

flatgrinder

flatgrinder

Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
2,045
I have two shafts out of a Ford Toploader transmission (from a '69 Mustang). Dimensions: 3/4" (dia.) x 5-1/2" (length). Anyone know what kind of steel these are made from?

They are fairly rust resistant (had them in a tool box with a light coat of WD-40 and no rust in 3+ years) -although they will rust, wear resistance is also very high as they look brand new (I tried cutting them with a file and the file doesn't bite). Could it be 52100?

Thanks! :thumbup:
 
I wouldn't want to speculate, but I really doubt they are 52100. If you want 52100, I suggest you get into the habit of taking donuts into your local bearing distributor on a frequent basis. In your area they would be Motion Industries, Applied Industrial Technologies, Kaman Industrial Technologies, U.S. Bearing & Drives, and Bearing Engineering. You'll usually find a hunter or two at each branch.

Take some of your best knives in for show and tell eventually. You might be able to find an outside sales representative that is a hunter. You'll be able to get all the 52100 steel you can handle by trading one knife. Be careful though, about which bearings you use, since all bearings aren't 52100. The information is for Timken/Torrington/Fafnir bearings. In the cases where I know the part number codes for other manufacturers, I'll put it in my notes.

Ball Bearings (ball shaped rollers)...Almost, always 52100! Safest bet.
Tapered Bearings (tapered rollers ...a cone shape with the top lopped off)...
Almost never 52100, but are instead case carburized (won't work for
knives at all)....There are exceptions...if the part number is five digits and
begin with a 3, for example 32311...then the rollers and races are all
52100.
Cylindrical Bearings (cylinder shaped rollers)...These are almost always 52100
steel...the exception are the bearings that have a 229 towards the end
of the part number. Those are case carburized rollers and races.
Sperical Bearings (Barrel shaped rollers..thicker in the center then on the
ends)...These are almost always 52100. The exceptions are those part
numbers that contain the following:
W40I...This means that the inner ring is case carburized, but the rollers
and outer race are 52100. For SKF manufactured bearings, this is
instead a prefix of ECB. For FAG manufactured bearings, look for
a W209B.
W40R...The most important one for knifemakers when wanting to use
spherical roller bearing steel, since we usually only use the
rollers. This means the rollers are case carburized and will not
be good for knife steel. I do not know what SKF or FAG use for
this designation. But, if you have the full part number, contact
me and I'll find out what it is for you.
W906A...Do not use a spherical bearing for knives with this as part of the
part number! This means that the rollers and inner race are case
carburized and not suitable for knife steel.
W507A...Same as W906A...(found on older bearings)
W534A...Same as W906A ...(found on older bearings)
 
If its 52100 it will snap like glass, when hardened. Forge a tang size piece,

harden it, clamp it in a vise and tap.

Fred

Thanks for the information Scott.:thumbup:
 
Most any carbon steel with more than 50 points of carbon will snap like glass if hardened and not tempered.
 
bladsmth said:
Most any carbon steel with more than 50 points of carbon will snap like glass if hardened and not tempered.
Click to expand...

I have hardened 5160 and without tempering it, could beat on it with a 3 lb hammer.
The 52100 I have tested, you could pretty well snap it off with the pressure of your finger after hardening.

This is just my experience. Yours may be different.

Fred
 
scottickes
I remember that my Cylindrical Bearings that came off a big trackhoe digger from where I work tested out to be a close off-shoot of 1050.

Their being made of 1050 steel was good news to me as I have plans for them to be used in water-quenched swords this next winter.
 
5160 is an alloy steel,and the alloy was what moderated the brittleness. A simple carbon steel,like 1050,1080,1095 may shatter if bent any at all in a hardened but untempered state. 52100 has a much higher carbon content than 5160, and will therefore become more brittle in the untempered state, which you found in your testing. What I was pointing out was that the snap test will mainly tell you it has a reasonable carbon content, but won't indicate the alloy type. It is a good test to determine if a steel is a candidate for making a knife from, but you will still have to guess what the HT should be. This is why I always discourage new makers from experimenting with unknown steels.
Stacy
 
bladsmth said:
5160 is an alloy steel,and the alloy was what moderated the brittleness. A simple carbon steel,like 1050,1080,1095 may shatter if bent any at all in a hardened but untempered state. 52100 has a much higher carbon content than 5160, and will therefore become more brittle in the untempered state, which you found in your testing. What I was pointing out was that the snap test will mainly tell you it has a reasonable carbon content, but won't indicate the alloy type. It is a good test to determine if a steel is a candidate for making a knife from, but you will still have to guess what the HT should be. This is why I always discourage new makers from experimenting with unknown steels.
Stacy
Click to expand...

Just one more reason to work with known steels. Spend time forging not guessing what you are working with.
Fred
 
flatgrinder said:
I have two shafts out of a Ford Toploader transmission (from a '69 Mustang). :
Click to expand...
The best advice then is to cut a small sample off the end of the shaft and send it to one of the guys here on this forum that can test the sample for you.

That way you can be sure of what you got, and know how to heat-treat the two shafts so as to bring out what they have to offer to a knife maker.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top