Ideal edge for hunting knife?

[Obsessed with Edges]

If anything edge trailing strokes are more likely to form a burr.

This.^ Especially on sandpaper.

This isn't to say sandpaper doesn't work well for this application in convexing - it does. But burrs will definitely form this way and they'll be easy to see or feel. Forming them, and then reducing and eliminating them on the sandpaper is all part of the process.

When I was convexing this way, using wet/dry SiC sandpaper over a hard-backed leather strop, I'd form the convex and work up the burr with the sandpaper on the leather side of the strop block. Then, to clean up & refine the edge, including removing the burr, I'd flip the block over and place the sandpaper over the hard wood backside of the block (I was using oak for this). That firmer backing under the sandpaper helps to keep the apex crisper & sharper. In finishing up, I'd even use some very, very light edge-leading passes on this side, to further refine the edge and reduce the burr. Then, as desired for more polish or refinement, stropping with compound takes it further.

Below is a pic of the strop block I used for this, with leather on one side, and shown with the sandpaper wrapped over that and taped to hold it in place (tape is marked '800' to indicate what grit I was using at that particular time). I sized my strop block to be used in-hand, held as shown. But this could just as easily be done with a larger/longer block on the bench.

 

[Kentucky]

I use a dmt coarse then strop with diamond paste balsa wood strop.I’ve skinned almost everything out state has to offer with it. Much prefer it to highly refined edges. you know a norton crystalon stone coarse/fine makes a good hunting/skinning knife stone. The fine side is still only around 325 grit and leaves a nice toothy edge. I use that when I don’t feel like dragging out my other stuff. I leave that SiC stone out and handy. Use it for a lot of stuff

 

[Jason B.]

If anything edge trailing strokes are more likely to form a burr.

While this may have some validity it would also be very difficult to not cut the paper using edge leading strokes. This probably is just confusing information to the OP.


The benefit of using edge trailing in this case far outweighs the minor issues of possible burr formation. Even when using waterstones the edge trailing stroke produces far superior results to an edge leading, mainly because the abrasive is not colliding with the edge apex.

Burrs are the result of pressure, the more pressure you apply the more burr you will form. In the case of using sandpaper over a soft backing you will reduce the amount of burr formation simply because the surface you are sharpening on is acting as a cushion to the abrasive. This reduces the depth of cut by the abrasive along with the force exerted therefore producing much less burr.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

While this may have some validity it would also be very difficult to not cut the paper using edge leading strokes. This probably is just confusing information to the OP.


The benefit of using edge trailing in this case far outweighs the minor issues of possible burr formation. Even when using waterstones the edge trailing stroke produces far superior results to an edge leading, mainly because the abrasive is not colliding with the edge apex.

Burrs are the result of pressure, the more pressure you apply the more burr you will form. In the case of using sandpaper over a soft backing you will reduce the amount of burr formation simply because the surface you are sharpening on is acting as a cushion to the abrasive. This reduces the depth of cut by the abrasive along with the force exerted therefore producing much less burr.

The OP was asking about how to tell when they were done with one grit and should progress to the next because they didn't expect to see any burr. I was saying that they probably won't have trouble seeing one because it's more likely to form one, not less, like they thought. ↴↴↴

If I use stroping strokes on the sandpaper how will I know when I should progress to the next grit? It's my understanding that a burr won't form when using stroping strokes.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Regarding burr formation on sandpaper, I'd also add the qualifier 'depends on the steel type'. Some harder, high-alloy steels won't form much of a burr at all, no matter what media or method is used to sharpen them.

With the steels I've sharpened on sandpaper, if they're somewhat burr-prone anyway, I've noticed it's even easier to create burrs using edge-trailing on sandpaper. I noticed this with steels like 420HC & VG10, which can already be prone to forming some tenacious burrs on most any sharpening media. Get the edge thin enough by grinding, and when it's thin enough, even the slightest pressure will fold it and make it reveal itself. With these steels, burrs remain ductile enough to make them hang on longer and even grow to very wide proportions, even while becoming very thin and still resisting breaking away. It's easy to make these ductile, thin burrs fold on soft(ish)-backed sandpaper, such as with leather, because of the tendency for the sandpaper to roll around the apex under even very slight pressure. That tendency can be reduced or virtually eliminated by gluing the sandpaper to a hard backing, so it can't deflect or compress and so the paper can't lift away from the hard backing and roll around the edge.

I've always had to be more careful with pressure and held angle on sandpaper, due to the greater likelihood of forming some big, tenacious burrs while using it. This also is part of the reason I go to edge-leading with a very, very light touch on harder-backed sandpaper, to clean the burrs up. The tendency to cut the paper is greater this way, so it forces an extremely light touch and careful angle control to avoid cutting it. This is beneficial, in that it's also the very light touch that's best for refining & cleaning up the edge. I found it to be a good training aid for the best light touch overall, on stones or anything else, to adapt the touch so one avoids cutting the paper.

 

[Alberta Ed]

Toothy works best on flesh, sinew and joints.

 

[S-3 ranch]

Several years ago I was at my father's house and he brought out his "new hunting knife". My father taught me the basics of sharpening when I was 10 or 11 years old. He can put a shaving sharp edge on any blade he owns. It's just part of being an outdoorsman to him.

What he bought out really floored me: A Cutco Hunting knife. Orange handle and their trademark "double D" serrated edge. A serrated edge on *my* dad's hunting knife???? Huh?

Then he told me the story:

He was on a hunting trip out West, hunting elk. Predictably, he shot one and they were quite far from camp. Dragging the animal back was unrealistic. The normal thing the guides do is to quickly quarter the animal, then pack the quarters on their backs (4 people) and bring it back to camp that way.

So they all set about quartering it. Dad pulled out his razor sharp Randall knife. He was proud of the edge. He cut into the hide and made one big cut. Then a second. ...and about then, the force required to move the edge dramatically changed. Two cuts and his blade was dull. The hide, the hair, the dirt, and whatever, had almost instantly dulled his awesome edge.

The guides kept working, just *zipping* through the hide and made short work of it. They outpaced dad by a huge margin. When they got back to camp dad asked about the knives they were using and they showed him the Cutco serrated blades that they all carried. He bought one immediately and started using it.

If you want to look it up, it's the clip point hunter with the double D edge.

When I got to see this knife it was rather dull. He had been using it continuously for several years at that point. It still cut because it was serrated. But it wasn't impressive in any way. Well.. we also weren't quartering an animal so...

I took it home and sharpened it until the serrations would mostly push cut paper. Dad was very pleased, even when he cut himself testing sharpness (which I've never seen happen to him before). I think he was expecting that I couldn't make it sharper.

This long story to illustrate two things:

1. A coarse "toothy" edge will penetrate hide and other things you might cut, much more easily than a highly polished edge. There's a reason the old timers in this forum recommend toothy edges.
2. Serrated edges have a bad name in our hobby. They are cheap junk with silly tricks on commercials. Many of them can not be resharpened at all. Kitchens are full of these ridiculous knives that make me irritated just to see them.

But... A good serrated blade is a superior cutting tool. I said it. A serrated edge, for most cutting tasks, is SUPERIOR to a plain edge. Just try cutting something mildly difficult with a serrated versus a plain edge. The serrated edge will win every time if the task is simply to cut things into pieces. (As opposed to fine whittling or other push cutting centric tasks.)

Serrated blades have the double advantage of:

A. Many, many points which can all be used for penetration cuts simultaneously. Starting cuts with a serrated is easy.
B. The actual blade parts are curved and set back from the points. So the points take all of the abuse and the cutting arcs are protected. This makes them last longer as they don't get abused, rolled, impacted, etc like a normal plain edge would.

I'm not trying to say every hunter should have a serrated blade. But it wouldn't be the worst idea... I'm mostly saying "use a very toothy edge" for abusive hard cutting. Like cutting through the hide of a large animal.

Brian.

I know , I know, going to catch some heat , but we run a working/hunting ranch and get to clean lots of gritty critters, like muddy hogs and nilgai antelope, so having a cutco serrated hunting knife is mighty handy , they will unzip some animals in a hurry, way out lasting any strait edge, I EDC a spyderco fully serrated delica(along with many other straight edge like a griptillan or 940) and keep a ton of moraknif serrated in all the trucks and around the cleaning station.
I recommend carrying a cheapo spyderco cara cara in your daypack for when you roll the edge on a fancy CRK 23 or a high rc steel knife , I or keep some DMT diamond stones and a good loaded strop handy,
I am also a big fan of dexter filet knives for boning out game run over a diamond butcher steel