ideas on combat / survival knife design

[marcinek]

And for that matter, why not bring a saw and a 3-5 inch fixed blade...its going to be much more useful for the cutting/slicing tasks camping entails.

 

[tltt]

On the outdoor knife front, I've always liked knives in the 5-6" range. They still work well for most small knife tasks, but you've got enough length there when you need it. I do agree with the thought that you need to get up into the 9 1/2" plus range to get the most out of a chopper. In terms of point? Some thing like a straight back or mellow trailing point, or a Woodcraft, or a clip like how the Randall #5 is ground is my preference. You get more than enough belly to slice with, while maintaining a strong and pointy point.

Also agree on ditching any serrations or sawbacks, I've always found them more annoying than useful. If you want a good sawing option, pick up an SAK model like the Pioneer or Farmer, and add that to your kit. They can handle the majority of sawing I've had to do in the woods over the years.

As far as handle shapes, look at the British Type D knives, Randall Border Patrol, or similar. I've found that shape to be the best compromise over the years.

In terms of big choppers, honestly, a person could do a lot worse than just finding a standard cutlass machete pattern they like, and played with a few designs based off of it.

 

[leghog]

And for a "survival" knife it depends on what you think "survival" is, and where and when you plan on doing it.

It would help us help you if you explain what you mean.

(It typically means "outdoor recreation/camping," but I don't know if that is your case.)

If you aren't carrying it in the unlikely event you find yourself in a survival situation, matters not what the knife is or how it is designed. The best survival knife is the knife you actually have on you when that very unlikely event happens.

So a "sawback/Rambo/survival" style knife. Cool. Are you going to be carrying this knife at all times, in case you find yourself in a "combat/survival" situation, or are you only going to carry it on preplanned excursions like going camping? Or is it a BOB knife to be put somewhere with a set of other tools?

I get a kick out of people practicing survival skills with big ass choppers they'll most likely not be carrying when they suddenly find themselves in a survival situation.

 

[gadgetgeek]

I think the main way to sort this out for yourself is to buy a bunch of knives. Figure out what size, shape, material and all that, and find what are the deal-breakers for you. Anything can be solved with enough $$$, but instead of making a custom that will in all likelihood just be a nicer finished version of a production knife that already exists, you'll learn more by using a heap of knives. Then if the knife you want ends up in your hands, cool, if not, you will know exactly what you want built, and that will lead you to who should build it. My taste in knives has changed a heap in 10 years of buying, owning and using decent cutlery. Yours may as well.

 

[hexenjager]

I think the main way to sort this out for yourself is to buy a bunch of knives. Figure out what size, shape, material and all that, and find what are the deal-breakers for you. Anything can be solved with enough $$$, but instead of making a custom that will in all likelihood just be a nicer finished version of a production knife that already exists, you'll learn more by using a heap of knives. Then if the knife you want ends up in your hands, cool, if not, you will know exactly what you want built, and that will lead you to who should build it. My taste in knives has changed a heap in 10 years of buying, owning and using decent cutlery. Yours may as well.

I agree 100% with this. The absolute best way to end up with the knife that works the best it can for your likes and needs is to be sure what those are first.

 

[marcinek]

I agree 100% with this. The absolute best way to end up with the knife that works the best it can for your likes and needs is to be sure what those are first.

Unless, and this is what I'm wondering, the OP just wants a sawback/survival/Rambo kinda knife and utility be damned.

And that's cool too. There are a ton of fans of those knives here and I'm sure they could help out.

It's just nice to know at the beginning, so we don't all run around suggesting Kephart trios and folding saws and whatnot, if that is not what he is looking for. It seems we have gone from "combat/survival" to "camping"...and if the OP wants to go camping with a "sawback Rambo" knife...nothing wrong with that.

Would just be nice to know, so we can help him out better.

 

[Judge Luco]

One of the best "fighting survival" knives made. IMO

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[marcinek]

One of the best "fighting survival" knives made. IMO

Quite possibly.

But it appears our friend is looking for a sawback knife to take camping. The "fighting" and "survival" seem to have been shelved.

Nice knife though! #14?

 

[Charlie Mike]

Here's my next one... AVigil 3V "14" tribute...

 

[whtshdwwz]

Started reading the post from the start and Judge Luco stole my thunder. 30 years on my Randall 14 and i have never looked back, best $180 i spent in 1986 and it still gets it done today.

 

[Judge Luco]

No thunder theft intended OP you should look into wall handmade knives (I apologize in advance if that qualifies as unauthorized advertising.)

 

[Vicarious Reality]

 

[hexenjager]

Please tell me that fallkniven sucks. I've been trying so hard not to buy one of those pretty, pretty things.

 

[ti lock]

guys, obviously a knife can't do what a saw or hatchet or axe can do... I am a CRK dealer so i have been able to handle a fair amount of combat knives...

I do want serrations that will allow for sawing small branches, saplings, etc.... I am just playing with the idea... perhaps a rambo style is a good description...

 

[Aias]

Based on what has been said maybe a Newt Martin knife, or for a less expensive alternative, the Boker Plus Apparo (which Martin licensed). The Apparo's saw back seems better for notching wood, however some of Martin's other knives have larger teeth on their spines. I have no direct experience with them, but read positive things. If you want bigger, Busse made a Battle Saw--which was their Battle Mistress with a saw back.

Personally, I carry a medium blade and throw a folding saw in my pack.

 

[Judge Luco]

Randall model 18 gets my vote. I've owned a Boker Apparo. Pretty nice knife for the price but I agree with Aias the Apparo would take too much effort to get though a branch.

 

[Goose 7279]

Man i didnt realize everyone thinks s saw back or serrated back is hindering utility it wasnt until a year or two ago i realized just how useful it can be. For a survival/combat knife i feel like it has a ton of uses and if designed correctly it is is very efficient. Are the cheap rambo knives saw back going to be able to saw through a 10 inch hickory? No. But is a busse battle saw gonna be awesome tool to have making dovetail notches when throwing up shelter and notching snare sticks. Oh yea. Also how bout the military issued m9 combat knife and or the ontario mark 3 issued to navy seals i guess the serrations on the spine throw all the utility out the window. They are totally useles right? In all seriousness they are great tools and in a survival/combat situation i want the a tool that has as much versatility as possible. Yea if im at home or a planned out campng trip where im at campground its great to have a saw,an axe,wire cutters and cast iron and the rest of the luxuries. But when i go on a 4 and 5 day back packing trips and and on the 4 week survival training course i cant carry all of that and the other essentials. But different strokes... It is my belief that people try to use survival/combat blades interchangeably with bushcraft. To me they share some similarities but they aren't the same. I get where you coming from ti lock i guess we're the only ones that see the benefits. Good luck on your quest and let me know what you come up with if you dont mind. I have been thinking how cool would it be to have a knife custom made with the same things in mind.. I know you got great taste because your into crk knives and there really isnt anything better

 

[Gaston444]

In case you are considering about a blade in the 6-8" range, consider that here below you have a 19 ounce 8.9" blade Randall Model 12 (weight is lower because of the ground down handle) vs a 14 ounces 7.4" Model 14.

For a 1.5" shorter blade and 5 less ounces, I figure you have to divide the chopping power by a factor of four between these two...

To be fair, the finger grooved handle makes the Model 14 an absolutely atrocious chopper (by far the worst I have ever experienced, just inhumanly painful, yet the finger grooves and overall handle fit my hand perfectly(!)...), and I have seen a 7.8" blade Al Mar "Special Warfare" do about 2/3 as well as the bigger Randall Model 12: However the Al Mar "Special Warfare" has an absolutely huge 6" long handle, so it really is as long as a 9" blade knife, and the blade is a full true 1/4" thick, while the Randall is advertised as 1/4", but is really 3/16" for most of its length, with less blade depth than the Al Mar.

This does prove big handles do pay off in ability, and that is my peeve with the Cold Steel Trailmaster: The handle is much too thin towards the middle to be very functional.

At the very least, with 5 less ounces and 1.5" less blade length, you should expect to reduce your wood chopping ability by half...

It is up to you if these figures make any sense as a trade-off... (I think obviously that they don't)

As to the ease of carry, even concealed, there is no difference for me carrying inside the waistband between a 7.5" and 9" blade: For people below 6' in height it might make a small difference while seating, but mostly I find 9" blades can be very small and light, in no way are they heavy or bulky knives: My Lile Sly II is no heavier than my Randall Model 14, both around 14 ounces, and after a regrind by REK the Lile was a far more capable knife, though I still keep the Model 14 for sentimental reasons. The Randall's spear point did prove an advantage for digging a hole into wood (the now quite thin REK Sly II point would be hard pressed to not break doing such work...).

6-8" is very good range for daggers, but for single edge knives, "they are neither fish nor fowl": This is a quote from Bill Bagwell, and while I don't agree with a lot of what he says, this has seemed to me more and more true over time. Military people really like 6-8" because they mostly cut food and pry things apart, and that range does do that well enough.

Gaston

 

[ti lock]

if i can get my knife maker to produce one of these that i like at a good price then i will eventually get a small production run of 10 knives are so made up... thinking 7 inch or 8 inch blade.... 12 to 13 inch overall length... 0.220 inch stock... serrations across entire length of top of blade... canvas micarta scales... cpm s35vn.. handle shape similar to crk pacific... I am in touch with him now and he seems to be willing to tackle the project once i get my design and specs finalized

 

[Judge Luco]

if i can get my knife maker to produce one of these that i like at a good price then i will eventually get a small production run of 10 knives are so made up... thinking 7 inch or 8 inch blade.... 12 to 13 inch overall length... 0.220 inch stock... serrations across entire length of top of blade... canvas micarta scales... cpm s35vn.. handle shape similar to crk pacific... I am in touch with him now and he seems to be willing to tackle the project once i get my design and specs finalized

Good luck and don't be stingy with pictures when available :thumbup: