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If Busse knives are so tough....
- Thread starter E__WOK
- Start date
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2000
- Messages
- 631
Well, as far as i know, there are several reasons.
1 - Nobody really seems to know what the SEALs use....There are so many knives claiming to be "the official Navy SEAL knife" that it's just gotten ridiculous... Busse probably wanted to avoid being another copycat, even if their knives are used by the SEALs.
2 - As far as i can ascertain, SEALs tend to lose alot of equipment....do you think you could focus on attaching that mine if your Batle Mistress was sinking into the depths because the lanyard had just snapped? They tend to use cheap, disposable, but good (if that's not an oxymoron, i don't know what is) knives, so it won't be too big a tradgedy if they do lose it.
3 - I'm not sure if i'm right here, but i'm pretty sure INFI rusts, not the greatest thing in a knife that's going to spend a huge ammount of time in salt water.... SEALs are not known for being gentle on their equipment (for all who were about to abuse me, i know they take (relatively) good care of their stuff, but take a look at what they do for a living. plus, i don't think they would have time to clean the blade with Tuff-cloth after every immersion.....)
4 - From what i know about Busse Knives and Navy SEALs, i would say the SEALs probably do use them, well, some of them anyway. It's just that Busse doesn't advertise it, probably because of the reasons mentioned above.
Just my .02
James
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All knives are created equal, then i get my dirty big hands on them and the real fun begins.
1 - Nobody really seems to know what the SEALs use....There are so many knives claiming to be "the official Navy SEAL knife" that it's just gotten ridiculous... Busse probably wanted to avoid being another copycat, even if their knives are used by the SEALs.
2 - As far as i can ascertain, SEALs tend to lose alot of equipment....do you think you could focus on attaching that mine if your Batle Mistress was sinking into the depths because the lanyard had just snapped? They tend to use cheap, disposable, but good (if that's not an oxymoron, i don't know what is) knives, so it won't be too big a tradgedy if they do lose it.
3 - I'm not sure if i'm right here, but i'm pretty sure INFI rusts, not the greatest thing in a knife that's going to spend a huge ammount of time in salt water.... SEALs are not known for being gentle on their equipment (for all who were about to abuse me, i know they take (relatively) good care of their stuff, but take a look at what they do for a living. plus, i don't think they would have time to clean the blade with Tuff-cloth after every immersion.....)
4 - From what i know about Busse Knives and Navy SEALs, i would say the SEALs probably do use them, well, some of them anyway. It's just that Busse doesn't advertise it, probably because of the reasons mentioned above.
Just my .02
James
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All knives are created equal, then i get my dirty big hands on them and the real fun begins.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 15,236
James pretty well summed it up.
There's been a lot of hype out there about "A Navy SEAL once looked at this knife!!!", and a whole lot of smoke & mirrors directed towards who uses what, when and how.
Never substitute hype for performance. Make sure you read all of the reviews on a knife, not just the good ones.
Spark
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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
Insert witty quip here
There's been a lot of hype out there about "A Navy SEAL once looked at this knife!!!", and a whole lot of smoke & mirrors directed towards who uses what, when and how.
Never substitute hype for performance. Make sure you read all of the reviews on a knife, not just the good ones.
Spark
------------------
Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com
Insert witty quip here
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
- Joined
- Oct 9, 1998
- Messages
- 76,865
It's a mystery to me why so many people seem to look to the SEALs for guidance on everything ... wouldn't it make more sense if whoever chooses equipment for the SEALs came here to ask us what would be the best knife for their purposes? And asked on the gun forums about pistols, and on the martial arts forums about martial arts, etc....
INFI is more resistant to rust than most non-stainless steels but it isn't stainless.
-Cougar :{)
INFI is more resistant to rust than most non-stainless steels but it isn't stainless.
-Cougar :{)
Cougar:
Oh NO!!!!
They do not ask, they know everything and everything MUCH better.
And then it's so hush hush top secret, that they don't even know what it's for, exactly...
Kind regards/salutations
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D.T. UTZINGER
[This message has been edited by ZUT&ZUT (edited 03-28-2000).]
Oh NO!!!!
They do not ask, they know everything and everything MUCH better.
And then it's so hush hush top secret, that they don't even know what it's for, exactly...
Kind regards/salutations
------------------
D.T. UTZINGER
[This message has been edited by ZUT&ZUT (edited 03-28-2000).]
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- Feb 6, 2000
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I think ANY knife can call itself a SEAL knife if it formally or informally passes the SEAL testing phase.
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RayField Clement Jr.
rayfclement@yahoo.com
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RayField Clement Jr.
rayfclement@yahoo.com
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- Mar 3, 2000
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- 4,798
I don't think Busse charges enough money to interest the Navy. They like hammers that cost $700 and toilet seats with a price tag of $1600. A Battle Mistress is simply too cheap!!!
That's only a guess of course, but I'm both a Navy Vet and a good guesser too.
That's only a guess of course, but I'm both a Navy Vet and a good guesser too.
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 627
There's a thread on another fourm that talks about SEALs and knives. The originator of this thread (and moderator of the forum) is a SEAL, so there is some personal experience there.
http://www.tacticalforums.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000008.html
http://www.tacticalforums.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/000008.html
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With all those official SEAL Knives to carry, how do those guys swim at all?
Alright. If anyone official can confirm this, please do so, however: To my knowlege SEALs as well as the rest of the military are not approved to use Kraton product on the handle because it is not as corrosion resistant as other material (it does not pass their test). That's why the Tigershark (SOG) knive has a kraton handle, and their SEAL knive has somekind of patterned plastic. The last time I saw a Busse, I think I saw rubber on the handle. And far as knives go, I don't really think the SEALs are looking for a survival type knife. SEALs (as far as anyone knows) only go on very fast "surgical strike" type missions and have no need for this type of eqipment. Rather they look for the best overall fighter.
And I can't remember if Busse knives are coated? the US army requires that knives be anti-reflective
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EdRozen-the professional alter-ego specialist
[This message has been edited by edrozen (edited 03-28-2000).]
And I can't remember if Busse knives are coated? the US army requires that knives be anti-reflective
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EdRozen-the professional alter-ego specialist
[This message has been edited by edrozen (edited 03-28-2000).]
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As far as i am aware, Busse knives have a Canvas Micarta handle which is an extremely strong material. They are almost all coated.
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All knives are created equal, then i get my dirty big hands on them and the real fun begins.
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All knives are created equal, then i get my dirty big hands on them and the real fun begins.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 1998
- Messages
- 5,461
The Busse Basic series use Resiprene "C" which is a rubber like material but it is not rubber. It can hold up quite well under most tests the SEALs use. I am sure the custom series would even do better.
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Mike Turber
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Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
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Cobalt
Platinum Member
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Ok, I work with 2 former seals and asked them both about knives. Their answer was that they basically don't give a s@#T. They admitted that some of their buddies are fanatics of certain equipment, but for the most part they just use what is assigned them.
Just my $0.02 worth.
There are many reasons why the SEALS aren't advertised as using Busse knives, some of which were covered above by James. Here are a few I've gleaned from my time in the army.
1. Combat equipment is expensive, especially on a "per capita" basis. Imagine, only one grunt needs so much equipment. Multiply that by a platoon and it starts to look expensive. Multiply that by a whole regiment and the costs look prohibitive, especially to the office-bound-procurement-and-supply-logistic-weenies. They could never hope to have such a humongous budget statement approved, so they have to reduce it. Besides, those low-brow grunts are always losing their equipment in the field, better to have a lot of cheap, painlessly replaceable equipment for them to lose. And if they need some good stuff to get the job done properly? Well, that's why we give them paychecks!
(As a side note, toilet seats have a bigger budget per unit because they are a collective item used by a large group of grunts everyday, and so need to be really sturdy to do the job. Besides, you don't bring toilet seats into the field, so they are much harder to lose.)
2. Generally speaking, those
office-bound-procurement-and-supply-logistic-weenies are the chaps who finally decide what to buy for the grunts to use. As noted in their name, they are office-bound, so they don't get out too much. As a result, they haven't the first clue as to what field conditions are like, and don't want to know anyway. (But they do know what a good toilet seat should feel like, being so full of it that they need to spend a fair amount of time utilising that particular piece of equipment.) So they go for what looks good (or mean), claims to be good, and are easy on the pockets.
3. Being already so full of it, they don't bother to ask the real experts for advise, nor do they bother to ask the end user what his needs really are. (They just grunts anyway. What do they know?) Once in a while, they may conduct some "tests" just to keep the grunts happy and make like they care. But in the end, the pocket makes the decision for them. Or occasionally, this being the new age of a kinder and gentler army where everything must be done with a "May I?" and "By your leave" and signed in triplicate and blessed by holy water in an incredibly complicated ceremony before you're allowed to shoot the enemy, sometimes it's better to utilise equipment that just scares the enemy to death, or incapacitates him with laughter, whichever looks better for the media.
Disclaimer: The reasons given above are the absolute TRUTH designed to make you want to suck a bullet from a gun, or howl at the moon depending on the phases of the planets.
There are many reasons why the SEALS aren't advertised as using Busse knives, some of which were covered above by James. Here are a few I've gleaned from my time in the army.
1. Combat equipment is expensive, especially on a "per capita" basis. Imagine, only one grunt needs so much equipment. Multiply that by a platoon and it starts to look expensive. Multiply that by a whole regiment and the costs look prohibitive, especially to the office-bound-procurement-and-supply-logistic-weenies. They could never hope to have such a humongous budget statement approved, so they have to reduce it. Besides, those low-brow grunts are always losing their equipment in the field, better to have a lot of cheap, painlessly replaceable equipment for them to lose. And if they need some good stuff to get the job done properly? Well, that's why we give them paychecks!
(As a side note, toilet seats have a bigger budget per unit because they are a collective item used by a large group of grunts everyday, and so need to be really sturdy to do the job. Besides, you don't bring toilet seats into the field, so they are much harder to lose.)
2. Generally speaking, those
office-bound-procurement-and-supply-logistic-weenies are the chaps who finally decide what to buy for the grunts to use. As noted in their name, they are office-bound, so they don't get out too much. As a result, they haven't the first clue as to what field conditions are like, and don't want to know anyway. (But they do know what a good toilet seat should feel like, being so full of it that they need to spend a fair amount of time utilising that particular piece of equipment.) So they go for what looks good (or mean), claims to be good, and are easy on the pockets.
3. Being already so full of it, they don't bother to ask the real experts for advise, nor do they bother to ask the end user what his needs really are. (They just grunts anyway. What do they know?) Once in a while, they may conduct some "tests" just to keep the grunts happy and make like they care. But in the end, the pocket makes the decision for them. Or occasionally, this being the new age of a kinder and gentler army where everything must be done with a "May I?" and "By your leave" and signed in triplicate and blessed by holy water in an incredibly complicated ceremony before you're allowed to shoot the enemy, sometimes it's better to utilise equipment that just scares the enemy to death, or incapacitates him with laughter, whichever looks better for the media.
Disclaimer: The reasons given above are the absolute TRUTH designed to make you want to suck a bullet from a gun, or howl at the moon depending on the phases of the planets.
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2000
- Messages
- 631
I am here to issue a sort of informal challenge. This is not to Busse knives, i know how much they dislike this kind of thing. If anyone has a busse lying around they happen not to want, i will happily "borrow" it, test it untill it breaks, without using a vise and a peice of pipe, and send it back in peices. Guaranteed.
Or, if anyone wants to just send me one to keep
James
(this is not an attempt to get a free knife, i will test (destructively or non destructively) any knife that someone cares to send me. The wink indicates that i was not serious about the second part.....)
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All knives are created equal, then i get my dirty big hands on them and the real fun begins.
Or, if anyone wants to just send me one to keep
James
(this is not an attempt to get a free knife, i will test (destructively or non destructively) any knife that someone cares to send me. The wink indicates that i was not serious about the second part.....)
------------------
All knives are created equal, then i get my dirty big hands on them and the real fun begins.
- Joined
- Dec 1, 1999
- Messages
- 452
I am always amazed at the hype and controversy surrounding "Seal" knives. Seals are highly specialized units that use there knives in ways that 99% of us never will. I live on a lake, but I doubt I will EVER take my knife swimming with me. I doubt I will ever need a non-magnetic knife to take care of mines that are floating on my lake. Everyone puts down stainless type knives as being beneath them and yet everyone seems to want a Seal knife. If you work on a fishing trawler or dive for lobster, maybe you need a Seal knife.
The rest of us would be served best by getting plain old carbon variety steel. I guess it's all about pretending to be a spec-op warrior running through the swamp fighting an enemy that never seems to be there. How many of you have EVER had to defend yourself with a knife? How many people do you know who have? Yeah, me neither. It's good to be prepared and you will never find me without a knife in my pocket or very far from one of my guns, but I would have to say that all of those people buying Seal knives would do more for their personal safety by wearing a helmet in their
car on their way to work.
Take care, (And a copy of Rogue Warrior. OK, OK, I've read some Marcinko)
Jim
The rest of us would be served best by getting plain old carbon variety steel. I guess it's all about pretending to be a spec-op warrior running through the swamp fighting an enemy that never seems to be there. How many of you have EVER had to defend yourself with a knife? How many people do you know who have? Yeah, me neither. It's good to be prepared and you will never find me without a knife in my pocket or very far from one of my guns, but I would have to say that all of those people buying Seal knives would do more for their personal safety by wearing a helmet in their
car on their way to work.
Take care, (And a copy of Rogue Warrior. OK, OK, I've read some Marcinko)
Jim