If you are going to use flint and steel, why not just carry a lighter?

I've improvised with my belt buckle and it created enough of a spark to light tinder. My zipper was the last resort and I wasn't planning on keeping my pants on for that..........
 
I always have a few Bic lighters stashed in and around my kit. When out backpacking, I’ll often pack a peanut lighter as well. However, the majority of my ignition method for making fire is with the firesteel.

I think he makes the argument in the video even though he’s really focusing on true flint and steel. When you’re using a more primitive sparking system, you really have to put more attention to your tinder, tinder bundle and overall fire preparation…to me, it forms good habits. Of course you’ll get no argument from me that when fire is an immediate necessity, that Bic or peanut lighter are what I would go to first.

ROCK6
 
I like to carry multiple methods of ignition. I pretty much always have a firesteel with me along with a lighter or two and stormproof matches for camping. I used to carry a traditional flint and steel kit but I have sort of drifted away from that and use it more as a having fun at a meet-up or family activity kind of thing. The problem isn`t the bic, its people who learned to start a fire (or who don`t know how to start a fire) based on playing with a bic. They usually do not prep enough and are too hasty trying to get a flame going. If you have great fire skills and choose to use a bic, there is nothing wrong with that. I usually start a fire with my firesteel because I still get some enjoyment out of doing so. I recently bought a knock-off zippo at a truck station and have started re-acquainting myself with the fluid filled lighter + ranger band to keep it sealed. I like that it is more wind proof than a bic, albeit having a much more finite fuel use compared to the bic. All the methods have their trade offs. Stormproof matches have gotten me out of a pickle once and I still like them as an emergency method.
 
I'm curious about the whole firesteel thing. I have one, I have never used it tho.

The people here who swear up and down that the firesteel has never failed them, can you use a firesteel one handed? can you light a fire using your week hand?

And how many of you can light a fire with nothing? Walk into the woods with nothing in your pockets, grab some stuff and make a fire bow drill and get one going? I would think THAT would be much more useful knowledge than relying on a lighter, firesteel or matches.
 
I can and have started fires using flint and steel and about six other methods. I canoe camped this weekend. Everything was damp to wet. I spent ten minutes gathering wood and tinder and had a cozy fire going within five minutes. I used a Bic. I had backup with me though. Two more Bics stashed in my gear and a bar of Trioxane, a few paper products, some plastic baggies, etc. But I was able to find and make enough dry tinder to get the fire started and used it to dry larger and larger wood. Oh, and I didn't split with an axe or baton with my Sharpfinger or stockman. Could I have made a bowdrill fire? Sure. It is good knowledge to have and good skill to develope, but when the simple object is to start a fire....
 
viva la said:
I'm curious about the whole firesteel thing. I have one, I have never used it tho.

The people here who swear up and down that the firesteel has never failed them, can you use a firesteel one handed? can you light a fire using your week hand?
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Yes but it is more difficult to do. Mistwalker and Pitdog have provided demonstrations of each doing so. There are also some firesteels designed to operate one handed. I personally don't think a firesteel works all that great as a one handed tool. You have to do some fancy contortions to get it to work and this isn't one of its strengths. This is one of the advantages of a lighter over a firesteel. However, I wouldn't see this advantage as being a major decision factor. But then again, I keep multiple methods of fire making on my person because I recognize that different methods have different advantages as well as tradeoffs. As to the firesteel - it works great under wet conditions and where immersion is an issue. It is almost completely immune to breakage and it lasts long if your are stingy with your striking.

viva la said:
And how many of you can light a fire with nothing? Walk into the woods with nothing in your pockets, grab some stuff and make a fire bow drill and get one going? I would think THAT would be much more useful knowledge than relying on a lighter, firesteel or matches.
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Speaking as a person who became absolutely addicted to a ridiculous point last year on bowdrill techniques I feel as though bowdrill provides you with a very good base of skills but it is also pretty unpredictable depending on the environment. Relying on friction fire as a survival tool for heat is not particularly smart and the most accomplished people I know at such methods pretty much all carry some type of modern backup for fire starting because they recognize that there will always be environmental situations that will stump you despite how good your technique is. Really, fire starting by friction fire is more of a hobby with its biggest advantage being that it forces you to consider all the steps of fire making and treating each of these steps with equal respect. In direct ignition (flame source), people tend to get a bit lazy. But hey, a guy who knows about bowdrill or flint & steel for that matter can probably make maximal use of the spark from his dead bic and get that to work with less effort than going for the friction fire on its own.

As Codger says, in a survival situation, the important thing is getting a fire going. What method you actually use isn't really that relevant other than if you possess the skills and the situation you find yourself in allows you to express those skills. If you fall into a coma and you need a fire, the only thing that is going to help you is having somebody around to start one for you (another version of the broken arm argument). The comment about possessing the skills to start a fire under harsh and undesirable conditions is really what needs to be emphasized. You can easily never learn friction fire but become very accomplished in most aspects of fire starting that you can overcome whatever obstacles are in your way given a few simple tools. That those tools are small, light and robust means that ensuring you have them on your person is not that big of a deal. Truly the real question is how many people actually test their skills under really tough conditions. Lighting a PJCB in your garage with a firesteel is still a lot easier than lighting natural tinder with a butane lighter during an unprotected downpour.
 
I have used flint and steel, outside my garage, in the great outdoors to start a fire. I use charcloth and flax wool for tinder. If I set up my fire pile right, all goes well. I enjoy using this old technique, done right it's a pleasure to see flames burst to life in my fingertips. And it amazes my friends and confounds my enemies ;))

However, given the cost and weight, I would carry ten Bic lighters with me. So much easier. Extras for trading with the natives.
 
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I have failed at firemaking before when I needed it most. Even using a Bic and trioxane. I gave up and power-paddled through a wet snow on a frozen river trading calories burned for heat. Then set a quick camp under a spruce (for protection from the snow), and fired up my stove to boiled fortified bean soup (added jerkey and ham fat) and coffee while I stripped out of wet clothes and into dry ones in my tent. I was very near hypothermic until I gave up on the wet fire starting and began the marathon paddle. With the heavy exercise, my fingers regained circulation and I began to steam in my clothes. Lighting the stove in my tent vestibule (to make inner heat) was easy compared to finding dry tinder and small kindling with wet snow falling all around. At either end of that paddle I would have been lost if I had only had a flint and steel, or firebow, or magnifying lense, or ferro rod, or mag block. Or if I had only had one Bic and it had been wet. As it was, I had the energy to spare and calories to burn until I could set a shelter, change clothes and fire up a new-fangled stove (with a Bic) for some inner heat.
 
One thing I will say is that using flint and steel with char cloth is probably one of the best ways in windy conditions. The wind actually helps where with a bic, or even a zippo, it's an uphill struggle.

viva la said:
And how many of you can light a fire with nothing? Walk into the woods with nothing in your pockets, grab some stuff and make a fire bow drill and get one going? I would think THAT would be much more useful knowledge than relying on a lighter, firesteel or matches.
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I used to have this opinion too but soon realized that where I live you're better off building yourself a shelter and getting out of the rain then trying to rub two damp sticks together. It's one of the skills that I've let go and just have no interest in attempting or training with.
 
Shotgun said:
One thing I will say is that using flint and steel with char cloth is probably one of the best ways in windy conditions. The wind actually helps where with a bic, or even a zippo, it's an uphill struggle.
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This is a plus for carrying some charcloth and jute in a waterproof kit. Actually no need for the traditional flint and steel. Spark that stuff with your firesteel (really easy) or use the spark wheel of your bic to ignite the charcloth. Like you say, the wind will help you. But really its about knowing the technique of blowing an ember to flames and the types of tinder to accomplish this. Should be separated from the technology of having flint and steel to generate the spark.
 
I've made plenty of bow drill and traditional flint and steel fires, not a bad thing to learn but I wouldn't want to rely on either in a life or death situation! I normally carry a firesteel (or two) with a piece of hacksaw blade tied to it and a couple bics. PJBs and or trioxane bars and a small candle. Good thing about the hacksaw blade is you can use it with flint or quartz if needed, or wanted :) Flint and steel is a lot of fun, but few can go out in bad weather with no pre-made tender and start a fire. A firesteel is almost as rugged, throws more and hotter sparks and doesn't require special tender!
 
Codger_64 said:
Other than sheer novelty, I don't see a reason to prefer a ferro striker/sparker over a Bic lighter. I remember the days before Gillette introduced the first disposable lighters (the Cricket c. 1970) and they were a vast improvement over the liquid fuel lighters (Zippo, Ronsen, etc.). The modern firesteels are an improvement over the much older flint and steel striker, but still a novelty, IMHO. Bic lighters came on the scene in 1973 and I have not seen a better, more reliable lighter introduced since. By all means carry whatever sparks your fancy. But I'll keep tossing a few Bics in my gear. Yes, I know five or six other ways to start a fire, but all are time consuming compared to a quick "flick of the Bic".
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yeppers!
 
Bicycle inner tube makes great tinder and lights even when wet. I use it to seal the joints on tins, so I always have some with me.
 
Bics are great and I always carry one in the pack. Fastest way to get your fire going, especially if it's cold, getting dark and you're hungry. I hate the minis though because they are a biach to work, especially if your fingers are cold. I also like to carry my butane Windmill torch lighter. Only problem I've noticed with my refillable butane lighter is that it stopped working above the tree line in very high altitudes.

For those situations, I do carry a firesteel as well.
 
Bics work above tree line too. :)

Other gear is good, I've thought about this thread for a few days, and I've decided to add a couple more bics to my pack/shirt/pants when I go out. Instant fire is too good, and I think they even allow them on planes again.
 
The OP was about using natural "flint" and steel. The problem in my area is that it is impractical to think you will find "flint." You can look for hours and find nothing that will strike a spark off steel. So because you have to carry the flint and charred cloth, the thinking usually is, "Why not carry a ferro rod/Bic?"
 
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Exactly, Codger_64.

When I was backpack deer hunting in the Domelands Wilderness the other day, the butane lighter in my pocket was practically too cold to evolve gas to make a flame...

When you're backpacking, you are frequently so exhausted by meal breaks, that you may need flame now. I futzed around with sparking it to try to make it light, but my right thumb was killing me(WTF?!) and after a bunch of flicks, I was done spinning the sparking wheel. I then discovered I couldn't properly run a butane lighter left handed! Warming up the lighter in my armpit was a no go. (Where'd my body heat get off to?)

So, I dug around and pulled out a box of old, miniature stick matches. In the cold breeze, these aging matches flared briefly, and went right out(aging chemicals). So, I struck two together, and they barely stayed lit to light my fire. If that hadn't gotten it, I'd have dug into my survival kit for REI Stormproof matches, which are in the kit because they are major overkill.

I bring butane lighters, matches, REI Stormproofs, ferro rod, and a magnesium block. I figure one of them has to work. If the butane lighter doesn't work, I just move onto Plan B.
 
Skills and knowledge are important. It may not make sense to start your camp fire with char cloth and flint and steel but it's a skill that I like to know how to use. I have started fires with
bow and drill
magnifying glass
ferro rod
flint and steel
magnesium and ferro

and many kinds of tinders. They all have advantages and disadvantages. But knowledge is power and having multiple methods in your fire kit is insurance.
 
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