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Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
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If you owned a knife company ?
- Thread starter KenOnion
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WOW what a mouthfull
I could write a book on that one Ken
I will post thoughts on it tomorrow but the first thing I would do is create an effective policy that works for both me as a manufacturer and the Internet dealer. Currently many manufacturers policies, written or not, are not good for the net dealer. So the many net dealers uses the only marketing tool they can and that is price. This only distances them further from the manufacturer and they in turn lower their prices even further.
I will get into product specifics as my post should really be another thread all together.
I would hire Jeff Goddard first, oh never mind KAI did that
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I could write a book on that one Ken
I will post thoughts on it tomorrow but the first thing I would do is create an effective policy that works for both me as a manufacturer and the Internet dealer. Currently many manufacturers policies, written or not, are not good for the net dealer. So the many net dealers uses the only marketing tool they can and that is price. This only distances them further from the manufacturer and they in turn lower their prices even further.
I will get into product specifics as my post should really be another thread all together.
I would hire Jeff Goddard first, oh never mind KAI did that
------------------
Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
Show Your Support -Visit Our Sponsors - Click On The Banners!
Visit www.onestopknifeshop.com
All sales from 1 Stop Knife Shop help support this site!
- Joined
- Feb 7, 2000
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1- quality control
2- customer service
3- innovative designs/custom collaborations
4- accurate delivery dates to dealers
And, I would split the company into two divisions, where one would be a standard production company, following the above guidelines, producing decent quality for a reasonable cost, and another would be more along the lines of Chris Reeve Knives, offering great quality for more discriminating users/collectors. I would structure the second division to mainly produce the same designs as the first, but perhaps with better materials and quality, and offer some limited amount of 'semi-custom' production, where a customer could have some input in the process. Just to make that clearer, I mean that SOP for that division would be along the lines of Speed-Tech, perhaps, with certain choices for the customer to make, but with some instances where a customer could call up and ask for something not normally offered (like, "I have a nice piece of wood I want you to use for the handle," or "can you change the balance point of the knife," etc.).
As for what areas to concentrate in, I would personally like there to be even more nice fixed-blade knives, but folders are more PC, so those should be offered as well. I like 'elegant' knives, not utterly plain, but also not overly 'artsy' (eg, I don't like the Hibben knives catalogs are so fond of, but that is just my preference, and plenty of people do). A good knife should be graceful (ever notice how the same terms are used to describe knives and cars?).
Honest analysis of performance would be very nice to see a lot more of, so that would definitely set a company apart. I instantly gain a lot of respect for someone who admits to not being the best, rather than someone who insists that his aluminum blades out-cut anything out there (not a real instance, just tried to think of something bizarre). Also, I would really like to see a company take a stand on knife laws, and have a few people on payroll whose job it is to hear about any pending knife-related legislation and keep the general public informed, as well as formally gathering details of knife laws for various states, (of course, the downside is that the company could not then legally sell a knife to someone located in a state in which that knife is illegal, without being liable).
Lastly, the company should take criticism well. A lot of companies either ignore criticism, or attempt to actively prevent it. When I call up a company and say I had such-and-such problem with your model so-and-so super-gizmo-dohickey, I really appreciate if they actually seem to be interested in what I have to say. I think that says a lot for the 'maturity' of a company, and even a newly-formed company can make a name for themselves if they pay attention to customer comments.
I think that's about it for now. I think this may also be my longest post so far. Hmm... maybe we'll all get together and start the knife knuts' knife company (although we couldn't call it that, on account of the three k's).
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
2- customer service
3- innovative designs/custom collaborations
4- accurate delivery dates to dealers
And, I would split the company into two divisions, where one would be a standard production company, following the above guidelines, producing decent quality for a reasonable cost, and another would be more along the lines of Chris Reeve Knives, offering great quality for more discriminating users/collectors. I would structure the second division to mainly produce the same designs as the first, but perhaps with better materials and quality, and offer some limited amount of 'semi-custom' production, where a customer could have some input in the process. Just to make that clearer, I mean that SOP for that division would be along the lines of Speed-Tech, perhaps, with certain choices for the customer to make, but with some instances where a customer could call up and ask for something not normally offered (like, "I have a nice piece of wood I want you to use for the handle," or "can you change the balance point of the knife," etc.).
As for what areas to concentrate in, I would personally like there to be even more nice fixed-blade knives, but folders are more PC, so those should be offered as well. I like 'elegant' knives, not utterly plain, but also not overly 'artsy' (eg, I don't like the Hibben knives catalogs are so fond of, but that is just my preference, and plenty of people do). A good knife should be graceful (ever notice how the same terms are used to describe knives and cars?).
Honest analysis of performance would be very nice to see a lot more of, so that would definitely set a company apart. I instantly gain a lot of respect for someone who admits to not being the best, rather than someone who insists that his aluminum blades out-cut anything out there (not a real instance, just tried to think of something bizarre). Also, I would really like to see a company take a stand on knife laws, and have a few people on payroll whose job it is to hear about any pending knife-related legislation and keep the general public informed, as well as formally gathering details of knife laws for various states, (of course, the downside is that the company could not then legally sell a knife to someone located in a state in which that knife is illegal, without being liable).
Lastly, the company should take criticism well. A lot of companies either ignore criticism, or attempt to actively prevent it. When I call up a company and say I had such-and-such problem with your model so-and-so super-gizmo-dohickey, I really appreciate if they actually seem to be interested in what I have to say. I think that says a lot for the 'maturity' of a company, and even a newly-formed company can make a name for themselves if they pay attention to customer comments.
I think that's about it for now. I think this may also be my longest post so far. Hmm... maybe we'll all get together and start the knife knuts' knife company (although we couldn't call it that, on account of the three k's).
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
- Joined
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- Messages
- 4,492
What e_utopia said. Probably the current production company I think comes closest to achieving this is the Marble's factory. They seem to have their priorities straight and offer everything important to me;
1) high performance products
2) classic designs, new designs and have a couple collaborations (Loveless)
3) great dollar/performace ratio
4) Customer service that, dare I say it, rivals CRK
5) Custom shop work available. They will basically do about anything a customer wants in regards to customizing his/her knife, at prices that make this a reality for many
Another feature one may consider is the active participation in Forums like this one. I don't think I am alone in the fact that I thoroughly enjoy discussing the knives I buy with either the manufacturer (and to have the manufacture actually listen and actively participate) or the people who buy them.
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It's only a mistake if you fail to learn from it!
1) high performance products
2) classic designs, new designs and have a couple collaborations (Loveless)
3) great dollar/performace ratio
4) Customer service that, dare I say it, rivals CRK
5) Custom shop work available. They will basically do about anything a customer wants in regards to customizing his/her knife, at prices that make this a reality for many
Another feature one may consider is the active participation in Forums like this one. I don't think I am alone in the fact that I thoroughly enjoy discussing the knives I buy with either the manufacturer (and to have the manufacture actually listen and actively participate) or the people who buy them.
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It's only a mistake if you fail to learn from it!
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2000
- Messages
- 631
e_utopia, i heartily agree, especially with the honest assesment and legal knowledge parts. I sometimes get wary of sites that claim every one of the 500 knives they carry is the best there is. The legal knowledge would also be a great boon. a few things i would add.....
PC be damned, give me big, mean fixed blades. And if something is designed to fight and kill someone, say so. Not something like "Flesh render 2000" but just a little paragraph on the intended use of the knife.
As many independent reveiws of the knife as could be found, whether they be good or bad.
That's about it for now, it's getting late.
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The beast we are, lest the beast we become.
PC be damned, give me big, mean fixed blades. And if something is designed to fight and kill someone, say so. Not something like "Flesh render 2000" but just a little paragraph on the intended use of the knife.
As many independent reveiws of the knife as could be found, whether they be good or bad.
That's about it for now, it's getting late.
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The beast we are, lest the beast we become.
- Joined
- Dec 13, 1999
- Messages
- 3,034
Not having any inside information about the knife industry (besides what I read here) I can't speak specificaly, but the basic general business practices such as Customer Service, Quality, Fulfillment of Responsibilities, all apply of course.
One thing many companies miss today in this "Jack of all trades (master of none)" world is a clear cut goal (type of product, policy of business) which tends to alienate customers who don't get a good feeling that the company is serious about what they do. Pick a business, and stick with it. All this flip-flopping companies do today through diversification only creates many weak divisions within a company.
Brandon
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"You should never never doubt what nobody is sure about..."
One thing many companies miss today in this "Jack of all trades (master of none)" world is a clear cut goal (type of product, policy of business) which tends to alienate customers who don't get a good feeling that the company is serious about what they do. Pick a business, and stick with it. All this flip-flopping companies do today through diversification only creates many weak divisions within a company.
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"You should never never doubt what nobody is sure about..."
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- 739
You guys are brilliant,I feel the same way .I also think a company should have a very dedicated research and development division that tests all existing products to there limits and finds ways to improve upon them as well as spend the necessary time to develop new products to perfection befor offering them for sale.Though a perfect world senerio it can be achieved.
Keep them coming guys,I need you!
Aloha!!! Ken Onion
Keep them coming guys,I need you!
Aloha!!! Ken Onion
Jim March
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
- Messages
- 3,022
I think there's a market for "upscale fighters" that look good *and* perform, combined with sober defense-oriented adult marketing.
Almost all "tactical knife marketing" is aimed at the 18-yr-old-male level. Go compare with modern gun marketing...the emphasis is on sober self defense as a "last ditch scenario", as it should be. Kimber is a good example, so is NAA. And women aren't left out of the equation.
Plus there's my old standby concept of "knife, carry system, training blade, training program" all in one box.
Defensive knife marketing is often more "Ramboesque" than the gun crowd...part of that is the relative age range targets. In the states where gun permits are close to impossible to obtain, this is a major mistake...the crowd that would otherwise "go CCW" with sane laws could (and should) be enticed into an edged direction.
How big a market is this?
We know there's 5 MILLION CCW permitholders in the US, approximately. And we know that although there's 31 "shall-issue" states, those 31 hold just a bit LESS than 50% of the US population. (Either New York or California would tip that balance, or a couple of smaller states together like Ohio and New Jersey.)
So that's over 5 million people currently denied access to defensive firearms but would otherwise be interested enough in self defense to take training, a background check and "personal registration" to pack a gun.
Since they can't, is it a stretch to think at least some would be interested in a high-quality production defense blade plus training video plus red plastic training blade?
Jim
Almost all "tactical knife marketing" is aimed at the 18-yr-old-male level. Go compare with modern gun marketing...the emphasis is on sober self defense as a "last ditch scenario", as it should be. Kimber is a good example, so is NAA. And women aren't left out of the equation.
Plus there's my old standby concept of "knife, carry system, training blade, training program" all in one box.
Defensive knife marketing is often more "Ramboesque" than the gun crowd...part of that is the relative age range targets. In the states where gun permits are close to impossible to obtain, this is a major mistake...the crowd that would otherwise "go CCW" with sane laws could (and should) be enticed into an edged direction.
How big a market is this?
We know there's 5 MILLION CCW permitholders in the US, approximately. And we know that although there's 31 "shall-issue" states, those 31 hold just a bit LESS than 50% of the US population. (Either New York or California would tip that balance, or a couple of smaller states together like Ohio and New Jersey.)
So that's over 5 million people currently denied access to defensive firearms but would otherwise be interested enough in self defense to take training, a background check and "personal registration" to pack a gun.
Since they can't, is it a stretch to think at least some would be interested in a high-quality production defense blade plus training video plus red plastic training blade?
Jim
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Jim,New Yorkers can get ccw pretty easy,yes you have to fill out some paper work and the wait is then months, but I don't know one person who was denied. Its the poor souls who live in New York CITY that can't get them. Yes there are alot of people in N.Y.C.I only bring this up because everyone I run into seems to think if your from New York you live in an inner city tenament down state. We are almost like two seperate states ( and I wish we were).
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- 3,000
I think I'd concentrate on trying to turn back the clock to cut a deal with you for the torsion bar mechanism before Kershaw had a chance to get to you. What a success that product line has become!
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Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
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Fred
Knife Outlet
http://www.knifeoutlet.com
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- Messages
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From a production philosophy (and a healthy budget) I would not want to get pigeon holed into a sector and I would like to be able to produce a wide variety of knives of consistent very high quality and never ending innovation.
Equipment that could work with a variety of materials and
equipment that could be easily modified to produce the largest variety of knives as possible using as much practical and efficient technology as the organization could afford would be a must. I would be committed to maintaining and upgrading that technology as soon as the business dictates as well as being committed to new innovative products (as well as few me-toos now and then.) Point here is to be able to create new designs quickly and efficiently. I would try to hit the gamut of price points. (Low end to high end very limited production.) I would never be satisfied with quality and innovation until I was ready to retire.
Couple that with everything else in this thread (including stuff that will appear after this) and a bunch of capital and weve got something going.
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"Life is too short to carry an ugly knife." Steve F.
Equipment that could work with a variety of materials and
equipment that could be easily modified to produce the largest variety of knives as possible using as much practical and efficient technology as the organization could afford would be a must. I would be committed to maintaining and upgrading that technology as soon as the business dictates as well as being committed to new innovative products (as well as few me-toos now and then.) Point here is to be able to create new designs quickly and efficiently. I would try to hit the gamut of price points. (Low end to high end very limited production.) I would never be satisfied with quality and innovation until I was ready to retire.
Couple that with everything else in this thread (including stuff that will appear after this) and a bunch of capital and weve got something going.
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"Life is too short to carry an ugly knife." Steve F.
- Joined
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- Messages
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James Healy: That's how I feel, but sometimes discretion is good, so I usually carry a couple (or more
) folders, rather than fixed-blades.
Jim March: I wholeheartedly agree, except for the sterotype that all of us teenagers (just a few more months, and I don't have to call myself that anymore!) are psychos, but I can easily see where if comes from by simply mentioning the word "gun" to a crowd, and seeing the very vocal reaction. Someone recently accused me of only wanting to get a CCW so that I could instigate a mugging for an excuse to shoot someone.
Anyway, back on subject, I really like the term "upscale fighters," which is exactly what Jerry Hossom is making for me (can't wait until September), 'cause there really aren't any production knives that fit the bill.
Glad to hear I'm not alone in what I think a knife company should be.
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
Jim March: I wholeheartedly agree, except for the sterotype that all of us teenagers (just a few more months, and I don't have to call myself that anymore!) are psychos, but I can easily see where if comes from by simply mentioning the word "gun" to a crowd, and seeing the very vocal reaction. Someone recently accused me of only wanting to get a CCW so that I could instigate a mugging for an excuse to shoot someone.
Anyway, back on subject, I really like the term "upscale fighters," which is exactly what Jerry Hossom is making for me (can't wait until September), 'cause there really aren't any production knives that fit the bill.
Glad to hear I'm not alone in what I think a knife company should be.
--JB
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e_utopia@hotmail.com
Jim March
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Oct 7, 1998
- Messages
- 3,022
JB, I phrased that badly. Too much current knife marketing is based on the "mass media image" of teens!
I know for a fact that there are perfectly sane teens and sub-age-21-for-CCW people out there who can go for the same concept.
Again: compare too much knife marketing and it's "SEAL teams use it!" approach with that of the higher-end gun makers and their "sober self defense" approach. There's such a thing as an "upscale, professional non-sheeple" that to date has been completely ignored by the higher-end cutlery world.
In the non-CCW states these people are a HUGE market - they're the exact same crowd that gets CCW permits in the shall-issue states. They're educated, upscale, no camo, not "overly macho", just calmly interested in self defense and will pay extra for what WORKS. That's why Kimber, Sig, H&K and similar are in business.
As to New York: the city is a huge percent of the state's population and is the most screwed-up gun control mess on the planet. Sorry to all you up-staters but...that's the truth. LA is about the same size and technically, there's probably fewer *carry* permits issued, but we have strong hopes plus a plan to change all that.
Go see my site for details...
Jim March
Equal Rights for CCW Home Page http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw
I know for a fact that there are perfectly sane teens and sub-age-21-for-CCW people out there who can go for the same concept.
Again: compare too much knife marketing and it's "SEAL teams use it!" approach with that of the higher-end gun makers and their "sober self defense" approach. There's such a thing as an "upscale, professional non-sheeple" that to date has been completely ignored by the higher-end cutlery world.
In the non-CCW states these people are a HUGE market - they're the exact same crowd that gets CCW permits in the shall-issue states. They're educated, upscale, no camo, not "overly macho", just calmly interested in self defense and will pay extra for what WORKS. That's why Kimber, Sig, H&K and similar are in business.
As to New York: the city is a huge percent of the state's population and is the most screwed-up gun control mess on the planet. Sorry to all you up-staters but...that's the truth. LA is about the same size and technically, there's probably fewer *carry* permits issued, but we have strong hopes plus a plan to change all that.
Go see my site for details...
Jim March
Equal Rights for CCW Home Page http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw
Wow! What great ideas! I agree with most of the above comments. Semi-production/semi custom with premium materials and options would be great. I would caution against a heavily 'tactical' line and go with a broader spectrum. Nothing wrong with tactical, mind you, but as you well know, fancy can still be functional. Modern shop equipment would make it easier to offer more without all the expensive custom labor.
Hey Ken, let me know where to send my resume for the R&D division!
Hey Ken, let me know where to send my resume for the R&D division!
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I like Chang's idea, as well as the "semi-custom" idea. If I am going to pay 150 bucks for a knife, it had better be what I want.
I would have about ten different general designs, from small neck knives to a 12" bowie, with choices in materials and some specs.
For instance, you can get an eight inch tanto made of 3/16 440V with Micarta scales, or you can get a knife with the same blade design and overall length but with 1/8 1095 and G-10. You could have a sheath made by an in house custom guy to fit your carry specs.
I would also include a customer service number that could be reached 24/7 in case of any type of dissatisfaction. If the customer has grounds to complain, we would ship it overnight to and from our "factory". We would make customer service the No. 1 priority. A lot of companies claim that, but in the knife world, customer loyalty is the ultimate goal, not just a means to make a profit.
And everyone on bladeforums would get their first knife 20 percent off...
I would have about ten different general designs, from small neck knives to a 12" bowie, with choices in materials and some specs.
For instance, you can get an eight inch tanto made of 3/16 440V with Micarta scales, or you can get a knife with the same blade design and overall length but with 1/8 1095 and G-10. You could have a sheath made by an in house custom guy to fit your carry specs.
I would also include a customer service number that could be reached 24/7 in case of any type of dissatisfaction. If the customer has grounds to complain, we would ship it overnight to and from our "factory". We would make customer service the No. 1 priority. A lot of companies claim that, but in the knife world, customer loyalty is the ultimate goal, not just a means to make a profit.
And everyone on bladeforums would get their first knife 20 percent off...
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2000
- Messages
- 546
I forgot to say, blade grind would also be customer preference. I absolutely HATE hollow grinds, and it ticks me off when a neat looking knife has that grind. I say to myself"If only it were flat ground"...
And chisel grinds are terrible also, but we would offer all three just to suit people.
And chisel grinds are terrible also, but we would offer all three just to suit people.
I think that I would concentrate on the high end traditional pocket knife and fixed blade market. I would have a limited number of styles and sizes. But everything would be made only from the best quality materials. Real silver instead of nickel silver, etc. The manufacture would be CAD oriented and the most accurate tooling processes would be used. Assembly accuracy goals would be in the laboratory grade range. I would also have the capability for customers to configure and order any of my designs online. Hopefully the automation and small number of tooling changes would hold down the cost enough to allow a reasonable price. I would only sell direct. I could also go broke!
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Dave
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Attention: Some assembly may be required. Batteries not included.
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Dave
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Attention: Some assembly may be required. Batteries not included.
- Joined
- Apr 21, 1999
- Messages
- 739
Wow!! with all this semi custom stuff you guys are talking about what would us knifemakers be needed for.
Also how could a company that sells 60 thousand knives a month have the ability to customize even ten percent of overall volume thats still 6000 knives .How many employees would this company have to employ to do that let alone keep an inventory of every possable handle /blade /liner /bolster material on the shelf .Then lets just comcider turn arround time .
Rember this is your company and your goal is to make and keep as many customers happy as possable however like any business you still need to make a profit.
you guys are helping alot and have a lot of great ideas .Keep them coming . I'm sure almost every owner /manager in this knife industry are reading this post ,nows your chance to make a difference .
I know the Kershaw guys are and concidering these comments seriously .
Thanks for all your input and KEEP IT COMMING!!!
Aloha!!! Ken Onion
Also how could a company that sells 60 thousand knives a month have the ability to customize even ten percent of overall volume thats still 6000 knives .How many employees would this company have to employ to do that let alone keep an inventory of every possable handle /blade /liner /bolster material on the shelf .Then lets just comcider turn arround time .
Rember this is your company and your goal is to make and keep as many customers happy as possable however like any business you still need to make a profit.
you guys are helping alot and have a lot of great ideas .Keep them coming . I'm sure almost every owner /manager in this knife industry are reading this post ,nows your chance to make a difference .
I know the Kershaw guys are and concidering these comments seriously .
Thanks for all your input and KEEP IT COMMING!!!
Aloha!!! Ken Onion
first thing i would do is hire ken onion and make him grind all the folder handles...
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http://www.mayoknives.com
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http://www.mayoknives.com