IL case law 3"

B

Buckfevr

Joined
Apr 24, 2006
Messages
31
- "Weapon not listed in statute can become "dangerous weapon"
when it is used in a manner dangerous to well being of
individual threatened, and knife with blade less than 3
inches in length can be dangerous weapon if used in such
manner." (1991)

I don't care if it is politically incorrect, I do not carry to harm someone and believe me I'm plenty dangerous without a knife. But there is no question that an EDC does provides another layer of self defense. I guess the statutes are written to give as much discretion as is legally possible to enforcement. Which of course I support, but right there the implication of the case law, makes it a much higher standard if the blade is less than 3".

It's one thing during hunting season, but for the rest of the time, at least here in IL. It's got to be under 3" IMO.
 
Welcome to Bladeforums!

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Buckfevr said:
It's one thing during hunting season, but for the rest of the time, at least here in IL. It's got to be under 3" IMO.
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Your wrong, you can carry a blade longer than 3 inches in most of Illinois EXCEPT during the comission of another felony. (I say most because Chicago is it's own little world.)

The law kicks in based on your intent, not simple possesion. Otherwise every Buck 110 in Illinois would be illegal.

Illinois Case Law:
- "Possession of hunting knife is not a crime; however,
knowingly carrying or possessing dangerous weapon with
intent to use same unlawfully against another constitutes
offense..." (1982)
- "Weapon not listed in statute can become "dangerous weapon"
when it is used in a manner dangerous to well being of
individual threatened, and knife with blade less than 3
inches in length can be dangerous weapon if used in such
manner." (1991)
- "A straight-blade razor did not constitute a per se
dangerous weapon, for purposes of armed violence
charge..." (1987)
- "Walking cane, even if not per se dangerous, was...
transformed by defendant's usage into a dangerous weapon."
(1977)
 
"- 720 ILCS 5/33A-1... A person is considered armed with a
dangerous weapon... when he carries on or about his person
or is otherwise armed with a category I or category II
weapon. (b) A category I weapon is a [firearm or] a knife
with a blade at least 3 inches in length, dagger, dirk,
switchblade knife, stiletto, or any other deadly or
dangerous weapon of like character."

Why risk subjecting myself to that interpretation and the ramifications there of? Besides which, if there is one place I certainly "need" to carry it is Chicago. :-)
 
Buckfevr said:
"- 720 ILCS 5/33A-1... A person is considered armed with a
dangerous weapon... when he carries on or about his person
or is otherwise armed with a category I or category II
weapon. (b) A category I weapon is a [firearm or] a knife
with a blade at least 3 inches in length, dagger, dirk,
switchblade knife, stiletto, or any other deadly or
dangerous weapon of like character."

Why risk subjecting myself to that interpretation and the ramifications there of? Besides which, if there is one place I certainly "need" to carry it is Chicago. :-)
Click to expand...

The "letter" of a law must be defined by the court rulings.

Illinois Case Law:
- "Possession of hunting knife is not a crime; however,
knowingly carrying or possessing dangerous weapon with
intent to use same unlawfully against another constitutes
offense..." (1982)
llinois Case Law:

- "Weapon not listed in statute can become "dangerous weapon"
when it is used in a manner dangerous to well being of
individual threatened, and knife with blade less than 3
inches in length can be dangerous weapon if used in such
manner." (1991)
- "A straight-blade razor did not constitute a per se
dangerous weapon, for purposes of armed violence
charge..." (1987)
- "Walking cane, even if not per se dangerous, was...
transformed by defendant's usage into a dangerous weapon."
(1977)

My degree is in Administration of Justice, my criminal law textbook was the Illinois Criminal codes.

+3 inch blades are perfectly legal in IL. even fixed blades in most places, unless by your actions you make them illegal.
 
Let me ask you this then. In IL is there no legal benefit to carrying a knife with a blade length of less than 3", versus one over 3"?
 
Buckfevr said:
Let me ask you this then. In IL is there no legal benefit to carrying a knife with a blade length of less than 3", versus one over 3"?
Click to expand...

No, in most circumstances. If you commit a felony while possessing a knife over 3 inches, then it can cause your felony charge to be bumped up to a higher class.

But just carrying a knife over 3 inches is not in and of itself illegal.

I routinely were Buck 110's and even custom fixed blades in public, and have stood right in front of Police Officers and no one has ever said anything about it to me, other than an overzealous "auxilary" cop who once saw me use a Buck 110 in public to open a box.

He backed off when I politely asked him to call an onduty "real" officer to explain the law to him.

I admit, the wording of the law makes it seem like +3 inch blades are classified as "dangerous weapons", but that's what the later court rulings were for, to clarify that it is "intent" that makes them fall under that classification, not just possession.
 
The Last Confederate said:
The "letter" of a law must be defined by the court rulings.

Illinois Case Law:
- "Possession of hunting knife is not a crime; however,
knowingly carrying or possessing dangerous weapon with
intent to use same unlawfully against another constitutes
offense..." (1982)
llinois Case Law:

- "Weapon not listed in statute can become "dangerous weapon"
when it is used in a manner dangerous to well being of
individual threatened, and knife with blade less than 3
inches in length can be dangerous weapon if used in such
manner." (1991)
- "A straight-blade razor did not constitute a per se
dangerous weapon, for purposes of armed violence
charge..." (1987)
- "Walking cane, even if not per se dangerous, was...
transformed by defendant's usage into a dangerous weapon."
(1977)

My degree is in Administration of Justice, my criminal law textbook was the Illinois Criminal codes.

+3 inch blades are perfectly legal in IL. even fixed blades in most places, unless by your actions you make them illegal.
Click to expand...


Hello, this is my first post here and I am very interested in Illinois knife laws as I live in Northwest Indiana and I am frequently in Illinois. If your interpretation of the law is correct, then swiitchblade knives are legal as well since they also fall into the same category as knives with blades of 3 inches or more. Would that be a correct assumption?
 
Ogie said:
Hello, this is my first post here and I am very interested in Illinois knife laws as I live in Northwest Indiana and I am frequently in Illinois. If your interpretation of the law is correct, then swiitchblade knives are legal as well since they also fall into the same category as knives with blades of 3 inches or more. Would that be a correct assumption?
Click to expand...

No, switchblades are completely illegal in Illinois, and the courts have upheld that.

The courts clarifed the blade length laws by connecting it to intent and actions, they did not do the same for switchblades.

They are illegal in and of themselves regardless of what you do with them.

The only exceptions are Local, State and Federal LEO's, they can legally possess a switchblade in Illinois.
 
Last Confederate,
I appreciate the clarification. Do you have any knowledge specifically regarding Chicago? I've heard that it is stricter there but that in terms of LEO's they tend to be reasonable.
 
Buckfevr said:
Last Confederate,
I appreciate the clarification. Do you have any knowledge specifically regarding Chicago? I've heard that it is stricter there but that in terms of LEO's they tend to be reasonable.
Click to expand...
This is true.

The law in Chicago is that you can carry a folder with a blade length 2.5" or under. This means no fixed blades, and no +3" blades.

However, you're not fooling the Chicago police... one look at you, and they'll know if you're a tool-wearer or a knife-killer. I don't even know anyone who's had a problem with their knives, except for a couple teenagers who definitely shouldn't have been carrying knives in the first place due to their attitudes.

That said, I wouldn't walk down the street with a machete in my hand, but you could certainly swing one at your bushes on your front lawn and have no problems.

I would even suspect a good number of Chicago police officers would stop you only to find out what type of knife it is, if you like it, if they can see it, and how much you paid for it and where. They've got better things to do than to enforce those weird ordinances.
 
This has long been my interpretation of the laws here as well- it's technically not illegal to carry around a big knife. It all depends on your intent. So if quizzed by a cop, don't say anything stupid that could be used to twist your intent in their eyes.

A knife with a blade over 3" is considered a "dangerous weapon". But it's not illegal to carry around a "dangerous weapon". (guns have their own specific and stricter laws, as do many other things.) It's not illegal to have a machete on the back of the pickup for clearing brush. It's not illegal to carry an axe on your way to chop some wood. It's not illegal to carry a fixed blade knife for hunting or whatever legitimate use you may have. As long as you don't intend to illegally harm someone with it.

That said, I carry my big bowie everywhere. I haven't been pulled over in years ('cause I don't do stuff that would attract cops attention as a rule) but I understand an officer may not know the law. So I'd plan to be extra courteous or whatever, and may still get arrested. As it's been said, "you may beat the rap, but not the ride."
 
Buckfevr said:
Last Confederate,
I appreciate the clarification. Do you have any knowledge specifically regarding Chicago? I've heard that it is stricter there but that in terms of LEO's they tend to be reasonable.
Click to expand...

Not enough to be certain, Chicago/Cook County does have restrictions that exceed those of the rest of the State, I very happily live at the far end of the State from Chicago and do not go there unless I absolutely have to. :D

Someone that lives up there will be better able to answer.

Other cites may have more restrictions also, in Il. any city that is "home rule" may pass ordinances that exceed State law.
 
the possum said:
but I understand an officer may not know the law. So I'd plan to be extra courteous or whatever, and may still get arrested.
Click to expand...

the possum points out a very improtant thing here, many times your local officer may be the worst person to expect to know the law, it's been my experience that many times they do not (not just about knives either), but just "do what they think is OK".

Don't argue with them to much, remember of the two of you, only he has state sanction to injure the other party! :D
 
The Last Confederate said:
No, switchblades are completely illegal in Illinois, and the courts have upheld that.

The courts clarifed the blade length laws by connecting it to intent and actions, they did not do the same for switchblades.

They are illegal in and of themselves regardless of what you do with them.

The only exceptions are Local, State and Federal LEO's, they can legally possess a switchblade in Illinois.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the clariification! I assumed that both were classified as "dagerous weapons" therefore they were either both legal or both illegal. As I reread the case law it does seem that your interpretation is correct, although I didn't see any case law on switchblades. I just thought there was no way around the 3" rule. Just to be clear, I don't own a switchblade/automatic, I just used that example since it is a part of the "dangerous weapon" category. Thanks again!
 
I'm about 45 miles south and east of Saint Louis. Drop me an email sometime if you care to- You going to the Mount Vernon Show?

I never accept the opinion of a cop in legal matters, unless he is currently arresting me. Then I'd comply. :) A while back my wife was at a party with a couple of her cop friends. They got into an arguement over maximum legal blade length you could carry concealed. :rolleyes: I'd get their take on it so I know what to expect from them, but verify what the law actually says myself or by asking the State's Attorney if possible. Since the courthouse is only a few blocks away, I've done this before. Even the state's attorney cautioned me that though it was technically legal, it would be a good idea to put it in a case or the trunk when possible just to avoid a sticky situation with LEOs.
 
Ogie said:
Thank you for the clariification! I assumed that both were classified as "dagerous weapons" therefore they were either both legal or both illegal. As I reread the case law it does seem that your interpretation is correct, although I didn't see any case law on switchblades. I just thought there was no way around the 3" rule. Just to be clear, I don't own a switchblade/automatic, I just used that example since it is a part of the "dangerous weapon" category. Thanks again!
Click to expand...

When I posted the laws earlier, I thought I posted this part, but looking back I didn't.

Switchblades have their own section under Il. law.

720 ILCS 5/24-1. Unlawful Use of Weapons. (a) A person
commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he
knowingly: (1) Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses
or carries any... knife commonly referred to as a
switchblade knife, which has a blade that opens
automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring
or other device in the handle of the knife, or a ballistic
knife, which is a device that propels a knifelike blade as
a projectile by means of a coil spring, elastic material,
or compressed gas...

Notice that there is no association with intent here, as there is in the dangerous weapon statute. Possession alone is the crime itself.
 
Do you think that the Kershaw Speed Safe, assisted opening knives would fall under that category?
 
Buckfevr said:
Do you think that the Kershaw Speed Safe, assisted opening knives would fall under that category?
Click to expand...

As of right not, no they are legal. They are sold in most Wal-Marts in Illinois.

There was a case awhile back, of a riverboat security guard taking one from a patron after he saw the pocket clip exposed and mistaking it for a switchblade called the police. The man was arrested, but I believe the charges were later dropped.

The switchblade statute classifies a switchblade as "which has a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring
or other device in the handle of the knife,"

Since the Kershaws open by way of a thumbstud on the blade, so far they have not been considered a switchblade in IL.
 
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