IL case law 3"

Hi Last Confederate,

What is your opinion, or do you of any court cases in Illinois where blade length is defined?

Take for example a knife with a cutting edge of 2.5 inches, but the choil makes the "blade" length 3 inches? Would this be legal in Chicago?

Thanks!

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registrationsucks said:
Hi Last Confederate,

What is your opinion, or do you of any court cases in Illinois where blade length is defined?

Take for example a knife with a cutting edge of 2.5 inches, but the choil makes the "blade" length 3 inches? Would this be legal in Chicago?

Thanks!

As far as I know, no one has made an issue of "cutting edge" VS "blade length" I would always assume that total blade length will be the one used.

As for Chicago, no I don't really make an attempt to keep track of Chicago/Cook Co. as I have only been up there 3 times in my life and will be just fine if I never go back. :D

As a general rule in IL. Chicago and Springfield should always be considered "worst possible scenario" for the average knfie carrier!

A great example of self-defense with a knife in Il. was in the paper today, An SIUC student and his girlfriend were attacked by a group of men on a sidewalk in Carbondale in May, after his girlfriend was hit with a bat and punched, her boyfriend stopped attempting to fight emptyhanded, and drew a knife and slashed one of the attackers. With a blade around 3 inches according to the report.

He was arrested for it, but after hearing the statement from a police investigator, the judge paused for a few minutes, then threw the charges out saying that the man was clearly defending his girlfriend by using the knife.

Now THAT'S a decent judge! :thumbup:
 
Regarding blade vs. cutting edge length, Judge Lowell Bray touched on this subject once in his column in blade. In the case he wrote about, they went by the length of the cutting edge. I have not looked in a dictionary lately, but according to the article, Webster defined the blade as the sharpened cutting portion of the knife. So they did not count the unsharpened choil. This arguement also makes sense to me, because otherwise what would they do with a knife just made from one flat piece of steel with no distinct demarkation between handle and blade? Also, the purpose of the choil on that knife is specifically so you can put a finger there for more control. If it's designed to put part of your hand there, then it sure sounds like part of the handle to me.

Regarding the court case in the article, as far as I know one state will not look to other states for a precedence. An Illinois judge will not look for the opinions reached by a California judge. (do I have this correct, TLC?) However, it seems someone interested to the case could file an amicus curiae report pointing out the logic used by other courts, which might still help.

Good to hear that case in Carbondale was thrown out! I've long maintained that the courts in rural areas aren't near as bad as lots of the big city horror stories we hear. If that same incident happened in Chicago or even Los Angeles, I'm sure the outcome would have been different- at the very least an expensive trial.
 
the possum said:
Regarding the court case in the article, as far as I know one state will not look to other states for a precedence. An Illinois judge will not look for the opinions reached by a California judge. (do I have this correct, TLC?) However, it seems someone interested to the case could file an amicus curiae report pointing out the logic used by other courts, which might still help.

You got it, the precedent set by another states court won't have the legal weight of a prior precedent from within that states own legal system, but a judge can pretty much consider it if they are willing to.
 
Just a thought here on blade lenght. It seems to me that all manufactures tell the lenght of the entire blade on folders when they give a detailed description. Most courts will use this as evidence as it is a non bias descipition of the knife. The courts have allowed into evidence the catalog desciption of a knife as to lenght and purpose of design. This is good and bad as if your knife is described as a weapon in the ads....

One question concerning assisted openers. The state of Ill actually sued Walmart for selling AOs. There is an article that says " Buy any switchblades at Walmart lately" dated 2/04. It states that Walmart was sued by the state of Ill for selling Keshaw AOs......There was another article that I could not find again stating they paid a $50,000 fine......
 
tom19176 said:
One question concerning assisted openers. The state of Ill actually sued Walmart for selling AOs. There is an article that says " Buy any switchblades at Walmart lately" dated 2/04. It states that Walmart was sued by the state of Ill for selling Keshaw AOs......There was another article that I could not find again stating they paid a $50,000 fine......

Here is the article.

http://chicago.about.com/cs/governmen1/a/020104_blades.htm

The author originally falsely reported that Wal-Mart was selling switchblades by selling the Kershaws, but then had to retract it.

It doesn't say that Illinois sued Wal-Mart over it, but does quote police as saying the knives are legal.





 
That is the same article I saw, but there was another that I can't find stating they were to pay a fine. I tried to search that out but can't find it again. It seems there is a local ordinace still against them as per the last line of the article. I assume that if Walmart still sells them there then there are legal per the state.
 
tom19176 said:
That is the same article I saw, but there was another that I can't find stating they were to pay a fine. I tried to search that out but can't find it again. It seems there is a local ordinace still against them as per the last line of the article. I assume that if Walmart still sells them there then there are legal per the state.

Yep, that last line doesn't suprise me, that's why I try to watch what I say concerning Chicago and Springfield!

Those two never amaze me at the "extra" crap they have for laws! :D

I have noticed that Wal-Marts here in Il. usually have a disclaimer next to assisted openers in their knife case "not available in all locations".

I wonder how many cities have passed local ordinances against them? This is were "home rule" in Illinois gets confusing, cites that have it can pass laws (ordinances actually) that conflict with state laws.

When we were pushing for concealed carry in Illinois, we also were pushing for a statewide exemption that blocked home rule cites from passing local ordinances that violated the state concealed carry.

We failed on it anyway, so it became a moot point.
 
Chicago doesn't define the difference between blade length and edge length; however, I can't imagine the Chicago police nit-picking like that: if they perceive your weapon as dangerous, it's dangerous.

On the other hand, if your blade length is 3" with a 2.5" edge, and you seem like a decent law-abiding sort, no problem. Frankly, if you have a 4" edge and you seem like a decent law-abiding sort, they're not going to worry too much.

Like I said before, the Chicago police have way too much to do as it is, and aren't going to break out the ruler for a visitor.
 
Watchful said:
On the other hand, if your blade length is 3" with a 2.5" edge, and you seem like a decent law-abiding sort, no problem. Frankly, if you have a 4" edge and you seem like a decent law-abiding sort, they're not going to worry too much.

Very true of most places, I know the world says "don't judge a book by it's cover", but in reality when dealing with police, our appearance and demeanor play a very significant role. Along with prior history, I admit in my own family, I have a relative that is one of those "just can't seem to obey a law types", and before he was 22 was a convicted felon for drugs and burlgary (multiple counts). Recently he asked me about what knife to buy and I told him straight to his face, with your criminal history and demeanor, I would advise you to never carry a knife even close to 3 inches, becuase from now on every police officer that deals with you is most likely never going to give you the benefit of the doubt.

Watchful said:
and aren't going to break out the ruler for a visitor.

There has GOT to be a joke in there somewhere! :D
 
I just joined and not sure how to find my way around yet. Does anyone know about the JOSEPH RODGERS & SONS COMPANY?? Thanks James
 
Welcome to bladeforums, this is the Knife Laws forum, you might have better luck in the Bernard Levine collectors forum.
 
Would the possesion of an utx70 in illinois (a 2.35" automatic) otf switchblade be considered a misdomeanor or is it a more sever offense?
 
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