IL--Springfield police warning people not to buy Kershaw/Onion "switchblades!"

G

Gwinnydapooh

Joined
Jan 20, 1999
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Today I was listening to WMAY AM radio when out of the blue I heard a news item stating that the Springfield police department is putting out public warnings that people who have purchased Kershaw/Onion Speed Safe knives ("at an unnamed Springfield store") were guilty of purchase and possession of switchblades, a misdemeanor in Illinois.

The catch is that Speed Safe knives are NOT switchblades under Illinois law. This is the first I've heard of any authority trying to claim such a thing. I have an email in to the station's News Director to find out what's going on and where the story came from. (I called, of course, but he hung up on me because I wasn't on his topic for the show.)

I'll contact Kershaw as well (and Ken, of course) but I thought I'd post a heads up here first.

This is the message I sent:

Just a heads up on the "switchblade" issue Mike read about during tonight's news: Kershaw's Onion series (including the Chive, the Scallion, the Whirlwind and the Blackout) are NOT switchblades according to Illinois law. I don't know what makes the Springfield Police Department say so, but I'm contacting Kershaw tonight on this issue. If SPD chooses to push this, it's going to become another Deja Vu issue.

I'm not saying that police officers should have to be lawyers, but I think they have a duty to check the law and make sure it says what they assume it does before they begin threatening the public with arrest over legal actions.

For the record, the section of Illinois law that deals with "switchblades" can be found at:

http://www.legis.state.il.us/legislation/ilcs/documents/072000050k24-1.htm

Here's the part that really matters: (720 ILCS 5/24-1)(a)(1)

(720 ILCS 5/24-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24-1)
Sec. 24-1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.
(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:
(1) Sells, manufactures, purchases, possesses or carries any bludgeon, black-jack, slung-shot, sand-club, sand-bag, metal knuckles, throwing star, or any knife, commonly referred to as a switchblade knife, which has a blade that opens automatically by hand pressure applied to a button, spring or other device in the handle of the knife, or a ballistic knife, which is a device that propels a knifelike blade as a projectile by means of a coil spring, elastic material or compressed gas; or
(2) Carries or possesses with intent to use the same unlawfully against another, a dagger, dirk, billy, dangerous knife, razor, stiletto, broken bottle or other piece of glass, stun gun or taser or any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like character; or
(3) Carries on or about his person or in any vehicle, a tear gas gun projector or bomb or any object containing noxious liquid gas or substance, other than an object containing a non-lethal noxious liquid gas or substance designed solely for personal defense carried by a person 18 years of age or older; or

The emphasis, of course, is mine. Now, the Kershaw/Onion knives (they were designed by Ken Onion, a custom knife maker in Hawaii, and are made under license by Kershaw) do NOT have any spring, button or other device in the handle of the knife which can be pressed to open the knife "automatically." You open the Kershaw just like almost every other one-hand-opening knife out there, by pushing your thumb against the thumb stud on the blade to push the blade open. The difference is that the Kershaw has a torsion bar built in which, when you've got the blade about a third of the way open, takes over and snaps it open the rest of the way. You CANNOT open this knife without manually pushing the blade open, as you could with a "switchblade." You MUST push the blade, NOT a device in the handle. Thus it is absolutely impossible to mistake this knife for a switchblade as defined by Illinois law.


Now, the law against switchblades is stupid, ill-conceived, and pointless. But Kershaw and Ken Onion have done everything possible to comply with it while creating a better mousetrap, and they don't deserve to have lies spread about their businesses! That's not to mention the unnamed store that's probably being put through the wringer for "flooding the streets with deadly and horrible switchblade knives."


Don Gwinn
 
A friend of mine who is a prosecutor in Texas told me that an officer made an arrest under the Texas switchblade law, of a person carrying an Onion-designed assisted opener. My friend declined to prosecute, but his chief overruled him and filed the charge, which, because the incident occurred in a bar, was enhanced to a felony. On another forum, someone posted that his assisted-opener had been confiscated at the Arch in St. Louis, because it was considered a switchblade there. Personally, I consider assisted openers as gimmicks, except perhaps for persons with neoromuscular issues, but that is beside the point of this topic. I would simply not carry such a knife anywhere, because while I may "beat the rap" in court, or an appeals court or the supreme court, I do not want to spend any time in a lockup, jail, or prison while awaiting those trials and appeals.
 
I understand what you're getting at, but in my mind that's all the more reason to educate Springfield PD and the public right now, before such a situation arises. The whole thing is ridiculous. The switchblade law is ridiculous in the first place. But to try to outlaw other things by simply naming them "switchblades" and hoping no one notices is beyond the pale. I'm assuming, for now, that it's an unfortunate misunderstanding, but the PD isn't helping me believe that.
I'll post my conversation with the PD in a moment.
 
I wrote this post this morning right after the call. Still haven't heard back from the Public Affairs guy.



I just called the Springfield Police Department. Overnight, the radio station has not only not backed off coverage, but they are now running a quote from a Springfield Police Lieutenant telling people that it's easy to make the mistake of thinking it's a normal knife because it has a thumb stud. He's also telling people that possession of the knife is a felony, which would NOT be true even if it WERE a switchblade!

And, apparently, I'm the only person questioning this.

I just got off the phone with the SPD. Front desk had no idea who to connect, which didn't surprise me. They gave me to an Officer Hohimer in Crime Prevention. I should have known right then that I should be wasting a Public Affairs guy's time, not hers, but I'm new at this.

Me: I just wanted to get some information on this story I'm hearing on the radio that the SPD is warning people not to buy or carry Kershaw speedsafe knives. It was my understanding that these are not switchblades--is there some new information or something I've missed?

OH: OK, first of all, who are you with? (Very politely and professionally.)

Me: I'm not with anybody, just a citizen. I collect knives and I was surprised to hear this.

OH: Well, ALL switchblades are illegal. If we find someone with a switchblade on them we can arrest them.

Me: Yes, but I guess what I'm asking is why the Kershaw knives are considered switchblades? I have the law in front of me and I don't see how they could be.

OH: Well, I'd have to see the knife or have it in front of me. . . . .

Me: OK. Well, the way the Kershaw knives work is. . . . (This was a mistake. She's right; I can't expect her to comment on that part of it without knowing how the knife works, and it's not like she can take my word for it. I could be anybody. Nonetheless, I proceed to explain as simply and quickly as possible how the Speed Safe system works and that you must push the blade open and actually even overcome the initial resistance the torsion bar provides. She is not impressed.)

OH: Look. . . . what are you using these knives for? Why would you want to have one of these things in the first place?

Me: Well, I don't have one, but I . . . ..

OH: I thought you said you had knives? (Now she's getting irritated. You can hear it--"This idiot doesn't even HAVE one of these knives and he's bothering me with this stuff?")

Me: Well, I do collect knives, but I don't have any of the Kershaw Speed Safes yet. (I almost add my usual explanation "They're great, and the mechanism is fascinating, and I really like the blade design, but I can't get used to the operation. It's awkward and slow for me." Surely this would not help her understand why I'm interrupting her morning for this, though, so I keep it to myself)

OH: Well they're illegal. They're switchblades, and it all depends. . . . it's all in what you're using it for. What are you doing with them?

Now she's actually mad. I try a few times to tell her what I use knives for, but she's talking over me every time about pulling over people for speeding and finding switchblades on them. Finally she gives up and gives me the number for the Public Affairs Officer. I apologize for bothering her and assure her that I didn't call to make trouble for anyone, only to get the information I need, and was simply transferred to her line by the front desk.

This is not entirely true, of course. I intend to make trouble for someone. I simply did not set out to make trouble for her personally.


In other words, so far, the SPD's response is the standard weapons policy boilerplate:
"Why would you want a knife like this unless you're a criminal? It's illegal because we say it's illegal." However, that response was from someone whose job really doesn't encompass public pronouncements of policy, so they're not buried yet. I will now call the Public Affairs officer and see what he has to say.
 
Many police do not thoroughly understand the laws they enforce. A good street officer will educate himself on the laws, and gain experience as he applies the law. Officers who gravitate toward desk jobs do not gain experience in applying the law, and rarely keep up with changes in the law and court rulings that affect the law, since they have little daily need for the knowledge. When you call a station or public information office, you are reaching, guess who? A person at a desk. Perhaps you are speaking to a good street officer who is simply taking his turn at desk duty. Or, you may be speaking to a professional desk jockey who has his eye on his next promotion or his retirement date, and cares for little else. Another thing to remember is that our society has a deep-seated prejudice against blades as weapons, and switchblades in particular. Police officers are a product of this society. Some are knife and/or gun enthusiasts but most are not. BTW, I am a big-city police officer, a gun and knife enthusiast, and a supporter of the right to carry weapons.
 
By golly, now we have a whole department of nincompoops. Obviously trying to make the Chive incident look like something big. Can't hide your stupidity by being more stupid.






sunnee
 
Rex G, any idea of the disposition of that case, or is it not yet resolved?
 
My friend has not advised me one way or the other regarding the disposition of the Texas case. It is probably not yet resolved even at the local level. I hope the defendant prevails.
 
Can't say anything guys just a FYI Kershaw is on it.Doesn't make any sence to me either.
 
Ey bra, long time no hea from you Ken. Howsda life on da iland?

I lived there from '80-'85. My dad worked at Hickam, Wheeler, Scholfield and other military bases. Even the marine station in Kaneohe.

Well its nice to see that you finally got on to que us in. Now lets see how things progress and what Kershaw has to say.

I don't Believe it will ever happen but the worste thing that could happen is Kershaw/Onion knives be come a collectors item.




sunnee
 
What is the feeling on the Robo-assist of the DDR's and DDR designed knives from Camillus? I carry a Camillus dominator almost every day.
 
For that MONGO, you should be hung from your toe in the middle of the town square and stoned by the Springfield PD.




sunnee
 
Hey, Ken, I shot you an email when I first heard about this, but I don't know if you got it (or if it went right into a spam filter.)

The local talk-radio station in Springfield told me they'd like to talk to you about this, so I told them they might find you here and gave the public email address. I hope that's OK; it's a public address listed in your profile here.

HSO over at TheHighRoad says Kershaw is going to be talking to John Schmidt's office (the State's Attorney for Sangamon County, where Springfield is located) today. Hopefully this will all be cleared up soon. If so, we local knife nuts in the area will make sure people know about it. Didn't know there were so many of us until this happened.

I also hadn't realized that the newer Speed Safes had the flipper feature. I always loved the mechanism, but I never trusted it with the thumb stud. I came too close to slicing my thumb with it a few times because of the way I use my thumb. The flipper solves that problem. I do believe I'm going to get a Boa followed by a Scallion for dad.
 
This was posted by HSO at The High Road today:

From Kershaw -
here is an excerpt right after the meeting. We still have some additional work to do, but it is looking better:
_
_
"Our hired attorney, Jeremy Margolis and I, had a good meeting today with Stuart Umholtz, Tazewell County State Attorney.

We showed him the construction of the Chive and convinced him that it did not fit the definition of a switchblade. He is totally on our side and will not prosecute anyone arrested with a SpeedSafe knife. He has dropped all charges against Ryan Sisk.

Our next step is to convince the Sangamon County State Attorney, John Schmidt. We tried to contact him and "kill two birds with one stone" but he was not available. Springfield, located in Sangamon County, is where two Wal-Mart's have pulled our product off the shelf so it is critical we convince John Schmidt that SpeedSafe is not a switchblade.

Our attorney, Jeremy Margolis, will continue trying to contact John Schmidt. Tazewell County State Attorney, Stuart Umholtz stated he would help us with talking to other State Attorneys if need be."
Click to expand...
 
Kershaw met with Tazwell county Da last tuesday and discussed the issue at hand and the Da agreed that Speed Safe is legal.
 
I am really glad to hear that the village idiots in charge in Illinois still have enough grey matter to listen and realize that the Onion/Kershaws are not by any definition switchblades and are dropping the charges. I must admit I would love to see a massive lawsuit brought against the politicians that first started this witch hunt. Even if the final outcome was just the dismissal of those individuals involved.
 
Wellll. . . . .

Mr. Umholtz did come around, and good on him for it. But he's the State's Attorney for Tazewell County (it's pronounced "tazz-well" but that "e" is still there--it's the county where Peoria is located) and thus his opinion is only enforceable there.

The next step will be to talk to the other SA's, like John Schmidt in Sangamon County (where Springfield is located.) If Tazewell and Sangamon counties are on board, a lot of others will fall in line behind them. I have no idea what Cook County will do or whether they're even paying attention (Cook County is where Chicago is located.) Frankly I would expect them to be against us on this one.

Once again, though, good for Mr. Umholtz!
 
Good news re the assisted openers, however, the rest of the laws you quoted contain language that could still land you in trouble. For example, "dangerous knife", or "any other dangerous or deadly weapon or instrument of like character", could mean just about anything. It's very subjective terminology. All you need is a cop with a suspicious nature to get you into a boatload of trouble. Even if you beat the charge, you still have the legal fees, lost time from work, and no small amount of stress as reward for posession of a common tool.

What's truly ironic is that the preferred edged weapon of most street punks (in this area) is the common sheetrock knife, or those cheap box cutters that every stockboy in the grocery store has in his back pocket. It's rare to find a badguy with an expensive tactical folder or a good fixed blade. The guys who have money to spend on a weapon buy a gun.

These poorly crafted knife laws need to go.
 
Yes and no. Clearly, those phrases are inane. And they are obviously some weasel of a legislative staffer's idea of "wiggle room" to prosecute anybody for anything.

However, they, unlike the switchblade law, are tied to intent. I have an "off the record" opinion from an attorney in the AG's office (they're supposedly legally barred from advising private citizens) saying that having read the statute, she believes that a prosecutor would have to prove that I was carrying the "dangerous knife" with "intent to illegally harm another." Let 'em try.

I often carry fixed blades and blades larger than 4", which she said would fall into this category but are legal to carry as long as you have no evil intent.


Since I am as pure as the driven snow, this works for me. It's a gamble, but I'm willing to take it. You are right that it in no way excuses the stupidity of the law.
 
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