ILBE pack vs. well-designed internal frame packs

Yes I am referring to the external frame ALICE packs. They are tough to beat. All the recon guys pretty much stick with them and get them modded by a guy in north carolina.
 
Thanks Paddling, that is a good thread. It actually inspired me to take a second look at Kelty, and I saw the Falcon 66, which might be right up my alley. I am not sure why, but I am seeing it at much less than the MSRP of $300 from some sellers (half or less). I'll try to find some reviews of that one, but it is the right size with the right specs and I have generally seen good things about kelty.
 
Kirk, Adam is an 0321, so if anyone has had exp. with packs, its gonna be him. When it comes to the durability of gear, take an 03's word over anyone elses. I havent been in for too long, just long enough to know better. i did have issues with the black ilbe, lots of them. the only part Ive had break on a tan version was the seatbelt buckle, but I just tied the straps and kept moving. I'm a POG, so you wont find me humping all over the hills of afghan, but I do quite of humping for my role. Im deployed right now and cant remember what model Osprey I have, but its the 70 model and blue if that helps.
 
Glockfire, sounds like you and adam agree that it's the first generation ILBEs (black trim/buckles) that are crap, and the second generation (tan trim and buckles) might be alright. Mine is a second gen, so maybe I will give it a try and see how it holds up. I think I can sell it off and get close to or more than what I paid for it, so I can always get rid of it.

That military-style kelty falcon 66 does look like it might be what I want. It gets great reviews other than some folks who seemed to want it to be like a kifaru or eberlestock ... that is, built to carry massive 100+ pound military-style loads. I don't need all that pack, I'd rather have a lighter pack built for civilian 40 or 60 pound loads.
 
Kirk, you need to know what our issued packs go through before you sell yours. They are recycled from Marine to Marine, usually every 2-3 years. In many cases they will be used to hike 60+lbs over hundreds of miles in just 3 years, then given to someone else. Ours are pushed to the limit, yours wont be. If it was my only pack for civilian use, I would not worry about the quality as it will hold up to that, I would just worry about ergonomics and comfort, but sometimes thats all subjective. I say used it and dont worry about it, but in the military realm there are much better products.
 
I am army, but my Marine buddies had similar complaints as the above. Good design poorly executed. But I don't know if they were 1st or 2nd Gen.

I had considered one of these, but went with an Eberlestock skycrane instead. It's an amazing pack and will quite literally do anything.

Good luck with the search.
 
GlockFire thanks for the compliment and keep your head down over there.

As for packs, As I stated you will not be dissapointed with the ILBE for ocasional use. If you see your self doing alot of hiking I would get a Osprey. I have not had good luck with kelty. I have been issued two kelty packs and both have fallen apart. One never left the gear locking in country and the other has been retired to a school bag, and even recently I have started leaving it at home in exchange for an old Granit Gear Arette. Take a look at the snugpack begans. They make a great product.
 
I have handled IBLE packs, but have no direct experience using them, so I can't comment on them. I have owned some higher end military style packs - Mystery Ranch and Kifaru. Generally speaking the military style packs excel at carrying heavy weights - not something I want to do anymore. A little over a year ago I purchased an Osprey Stratos 36 at REI because I needed something quick. Turns out I loved it - even though I am (was) a molle/pouch fanatic. A few months ago I needed a bigger pack. After the good experience with my first Osprey I decided to try their Aether 70. I got it and the Daypack add-on that attaches to the back (kind of like a Kifaru E&E). Love it too. If your load is under 50# I'd suggest you don't rule out traditional style packs. Military packs are generally heavier, and hanging pouches all over them adds even more weight. Yes... I don't look tacticool anymore, but my back and legs appreciate it.

Pic of my Aether set-up:

IMAG0201.jpg
 
I am a bag hoarder. I have more bags than I know what to do with. I have finally narrowed it down to 7. That is actually quite a small number for me.

Military use

For extended range military operations greater than 1o days or when the weight will exceed 85Lbs I stick with my trust ALICE mountain ruck modified by highspeed gear in Swansboro NC. Might replace this one day with a wolf alpha but well see.

For operations greater the 2 days I can get by with my mystery ranch SATL

Anything less than that I have a Kelty MAP 3500( hopefully soon to be replaced by a mystery ranch 3-day assault pack.

Fun Hikes

For long trips with the family I use an osprey Atmos 65 great pack

For solo 2-5 day trips I have an old Granite gear Arete that I love/ might replace with an osprey kestrel 35 if I can find one cheap

Day hikes and a flight carry on I use an osprey manta 25. Love this pack. Also great for adventure racing.

I also have an mystery ranch sweet pea I use for 2-3 day trips and mainly for climbing.

I would eventually like to have all military pack mystery ranch and all civilian packs osprey.
 
We have similar tastes Adam! I still have my old Large ALICE modified by HSGI that’s over 10 years old and going strong and survived my first 15-month deployment to Iraq. It’s a beast of a pack and will most likely be used by my son when he’s older…I can pack enough crap to live out of it for months.

I went on a short binge of Kifaru and Ar’Teryx; both are excellent combat packs. I really think the Kifaru is about the best replacement for the original ALICE pack and I know I can comfortably carry over 100 pounds in a Kifaru EMR over rough trails (although I won’t be doing that by choice anymore).

I recently used my first Mystery Ranch (a 3DAP) in Afghanistan as my minimalist travel bag. It’s about perfect for short durations and the tri-zip design is quite unique. I did see several MR SATL packs with Army SF guys and they really liked them…and they were often over stuffed and used pretty hard.

As much as I love the military-designed packs, I’m an Osprey lover for back packing. I own a few and for recreational backpacking, they are hard to beat with excellent features that just work well for me. I’m currently using a Gregory 65L pack and will replace it with an Osprey if/when it wears out (which is another good pack BTW).

I had some good discussions with a few Marines regarding their ILBE. They are much better designed than the newest MOLLE generation pack I was issued. As usual, the original design is excellent, but the contract mass-manufacture always has bugs. Propper is at least a reputable manufacturer of the Arc’Teryx packs, but they won’t compare with the originals. I remember the same thing happened in the SOF world back in the early 90’s with the CFP-90 pack. Several of the originally designed Lowe packs were floating around in the unit I was with and the guys with them weren’t giving them up; the contracted CFP-90 was an abysmal failure. The Marines are a little smaller organization than the Army, so I would think the mass-issued ILBE will hold up and retain better QA/QC. The Army MOLLE pack in OCP (Multicam) was actually well built; not the most comfortable and not a bunch of cool features. It’s functional to carry a bunch of crap, but I wouldn’t want to carry it much further than to a pallet being built for mass transport. For those humping heavy loads in rough terrain, the price of quality suspension is paramount.

ROCK6
 
Since I started this post going on 10 months ago, I have done a great deal of hiking with packs and pack comparing. I, like some of the posters, have realized that it makes a lot of sense to separate packs for hiking and similar tasks from packs made for more "military" type purposes, meaning carrying a lot of weight and bulky, heavy items and still being able to take a great deal of abuse over a long period of time.

My first pack was an eberlestock X2, which is a smaller bulletproof military style pack. I like it, and it has a great suspension and is most certainly bulletproof. But the fact is that I don't need that (and don't want to lug around the weight that comes with all of that) when I am just going for a day hike. So, after a lot of consideration and trying on packs, I picked up a Gregory Z30, which I load with probably 20-30 lbs. when I go on day hikes. I also liked the Osprey stratos 26 ... the deuter futura 32 also looked good (and they can be had for low prices) but it is kind of heavy. All three of these are ventilated packs, which I decided was a feature that I wouldn't go without.

I plan to do a comparison post of the eberlestock and the gregory. Long story short, the gregory is lighter and better for carrying only what you need for a day hike. It is built well, but certainly not bulletproof like the eberlestock. The eberlestock is much better for organizing your gear (it would be much easier to live out of (as opposed to just getting gear from point A to point B) than the gregory), and is much more versatile in terms of allowing you to stowe bulky items (e.g., if you are loading up half of a quartered sheep or something) and carry a lot of weight.

I took this logic to my big packs too -- I have one tough military style pack (a Kelty Falcon 66) for a bug-out-bag and applications where toughness and/or versatility are more important than just being able to get necessary gear from point A to point B. For my high performance hiking pack, I settled on an Osprey Atmos 65 ... I thought that its ventilation system was the best out there, and it fit my body much better than any other pack that I tried. It also is closest to what I wanted in design -- a good suspension system (i.e., NOT an ultralight rucksack), but still made to be light weight. I haven't given that pack any work yet, but I expect good things from it.

I may look to replace the kelty with something like one of the lighter eberlstock hiking-style packs or maybe research some other packs (like dana designs packs) that are built very tough and able to carry heavier loads very well. I think my kelty is pretty tough, but I can tell that there are tougher options out there. I probably won't ever want to spend the sort of money you need to for kifaru or military-style mystery ranch packs.
 
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