im cutting hair but not paper

With a sharpmaker, I reprofile all of my blades to the Sharpmaker's angle. I do that just because I'm pretty lazy, lol. Once a knife has been sharpened even the 8cr13 knives, since most of us are anal retentive we usually never let them get dull to the point that the SM can't hone up the edge right quick. That said I've had your situation happen. I don't want to sound like the naysayer but it's probably not a burr. You just need to match the angle. Also the UF rods are nice, but the course side of a leather belt even without compound, just raw really works miracles.

I keep diamond rods, a norton stone and DMT course and medium grit hones. But I usually will just use my SM or lansky diamond turnbox and after stropping on the leather belt the knives are always stupid sharp. If a knife is a user I put a 20 degree edge using the Norton right away though no matter what. The only time I haven't done this was with a Sebenza which only needed some stropping. But the stropping really is where you want to be right now and it only will cost you an old leather belt! PS I got the same results using a black and white marble notebook and going over the paper as well as a pine 2X4! The 2X4 naked worked better than the leather. I used the 2X4 to strop a small pen knife for pumpkin carving, it was so sharp it ripped through my pumpkin and out and opened up my thumb really bad!

It usually cures all ills when using the sharpmaker. The norton will usually create the new profile really quick with most steels or fresh knives that already have the basic edge angle in place.
 
steeltowninwv said:
ok here is a you tube video I just uploaded.....any critiquing is encouraged

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rxz6Bm0Nzg&list=UUA_gbbVG5eWE39m8Aa817aw
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I do not own a Sharpmaker, but your methods seem sound. I know its not encouraged on that system, but maybe you could try staying on one side of the edge until you have a burr formed that can be felt by rubbing your thumb hard against the side of the edge, like you're wiping off some tar or glue. Another burr detector is to use strong overhead lighting and hold the knife up at eye level, broadside, edge pointing downward. Slowly tilt the edge back and forth, letting the light play along the face of the blade - a burr will look like a tiny halo/line of light just off the cutting edge.

Once you know you have a burr on one side, move to the other and work it till you have pushed that burr entirely to the opposite side. Remove it with very light leading passes just as you're doing.

I suspect you have a partial burr on the edge that is not be identified as such and removed. This fits the shaving on one side but not the other, and the hitching action it has cutting newsprint.
 
steeltowninwv said:
im not sure whats going on I pulled a case knife out I have, because I knew it would be better steel...gave it the workout on the sharpmaker......ugh..it is very very sharp on one side...slices slivers off of paper..and shaves..but the other side wont shave paper or hair.....hate to be a pain, but I just wanna learn this
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That's classic burr (or wire edge) behavior; the burr is leaning to one side, and it'll cut & shave into the side to which it leans. When turned the other way (burr leaning away from the material being cut), the burr won't grab or bite (or cut).

This is also a classic symptom of too-heavy pressure on ceramics with softish steels (like Case; especially their stainless). The combination almost guarantees the formation of stubborn burrs. With such steels, you need to go feather-light with pressure, essentially as if you were brushing dust off your Sharpmaker's rods. It's also a good idea to avoid sharpening on the corners of the rods, as that'll focus pressure into a very small contact point on the edge, making edge-rolling or burring even worse. Use only the flats of the rods instead.

(BTW, I watched the video you posted; looks almost as if your SM's rods might be somewhat loaded or clogged with swarf, they look sort of dark/streaked. If so, that'll slow them down and magnify the effects of the pressure as well. The natural tendency for most people is to 'push harder' into the hones when they get clogged & slow, and that'll just make bigger burrs.)


David
 
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From video, maybe your SM rods are glazed/clogged (look blacken)? If so, the sharpening has more burnish than abrade component. SM stoke (edge leading) can only burnish (plastic move) metal away from apex to certain point however at the same time put high deflection on the apex (as metal resist burnish+abrade+abrasion). Beside, sintered ceramic rods aren't sharpest abrasive (dull over time and not renewable surface - similar to diamond plate).

steeltowninwv said:
ok here is a you tube video I just uploaded.....any critiquing is encouraged

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rxz6Bm0Nzg&list=UUA_gbbVG5eWE39m8Aa817aw
Click to expand...
 
[video=youtube;9Rxz6Bm0Nzg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Rxz6Bm0Nzg&list=UUA_gbbVG5eWE39m8Aa817aw[/video]

from what I see
Get some abrasive cleaner like ajax, comet or other types. Your sharpmaker is very clogged and wont perform well like it is now

get a towel sprinkle some on the towel, wet it and scrub the sharpening rod against the cloth until its white, rinse and repeat.

1117ajax.jpg

51O2cd8FckL._SY300_.jpg
 
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Get some white compound and strop it. Shaving but not cutting paper, and only shaving on one side is definitely a burr.
 
thanks for all the help..i have my ceramic rods in the dishwasher now..it actually says in the manual they are dishwasher safe.....I will try some of ur tips this evening and post the results
 
well ive been at work with the knife for the last 30 minutes....im very very close....it shaves on both sides ..cuts paper easily..but one side seems to be sharper than the other.....its very close to what im trying to achieve.......no sharpie left on the bevel....but let me make sure im getting this right..there was sharpie left upon the bevel..but far up on it..not on the cutting edge though...

the side of the knife that seems to be sharper is the left side..for example...shaving on ur left arm making a downward motion to shave that's the sharpest edge...when shaving on left arm moving the knife up still shaves but not as easily.....which side would that represent on the sharp maker?
 
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steeltowninwv said:
well ive been at work with the knife for the last 30 minutes....im very very close....it shaves on both sides ..cuts paper easily..but one side seems to be sharper than the other.....its very close to what im trying to achieve.......no sharpie left on the bevel....but let me make sure im getting this right..there was sharpie left upon the bevel..but far up on it..not on the cutting edge though...

the side of the knife that seems to be sharper is the left side..for example...shaving on ur left arm making a downward motion to shave that's the sharpest edge...when shaving on left arm moving the knife up still shaves but not as easily.....which side would that represent on the sharp maker?
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The underlined part suggests a burr that's slightly angled toward the LEFT side of the blade, and toward the LEFT side of the SM, when sharpening; that burr would be angled slightly away from the skin when attempting to shave the left arm in an upward direction (wrist to elbow), which means it won't shave as well. A few passes on the LEFT SIDE rod of the SM should hopefully reduce that burr, or at least cause it to angle the other way, after which you'd see the shaving performance 'flip' to favoring a stroke in the other direction, or better, improve to shaving well from both sides.


David
 
im absolutely stumped..is there anyone on here with a sharpmaker that I could ship the knife to?..not asking for someone else to sharpen..i wanna learn it...I just wanna make sure im doing the right thing here...I would just want someone to inspect it and tell me what im doing wrong...or right..and what else I need to do?
 
steeltowninwv said:
im absolutely stumped..is there anyone on here with a sharpmaker that I could ship the knife to?..not asking for someone else to sharpen..i wanna learn it...I just wanna make sure im doing the right thing here...I would just want someone to inspect it and tell me what im doing wrong...or right..and what else I need to do?
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Going back and looking at your video, I'd bet there could be a few things getting in the way:

  • Possible clogged rods (how clean are they after the dishwasher? Almost certainly need scrubbing as well).
  • In looking at the stroke, it appears the blade's edge is being angled into the rods a bit too much, and not staying at vertical. If so, that's at least going to make your edge angle wider (more obtuse), and could also make burring issues worse.
  • I'd still bet the pressure used is a bit too heavy. In tandem with the angled-in stroke as mentioned above, that'll exert even more pressure against the edge.
  • I'd suggest modifying your hold on the knife a bit, to help in reducing pressure. I prefer placing my thumb on one side of the blade's tang, and the inside edge of my index finger on the other side of the tang (tip of finger pointing DOWN), instead of thumb-on-top with the fingers curled around the bottom of the handle. The 'two-finger' approach (thumb & index) makes it a bit harder to exert too much pressure and still maintain a steady angle; this forces a lighter touch to keep the angle steady. Use the ring and pinky finger to stabilize the butt of the handle against your palm, and don't exert much or any pressure with your middle finger (I often actually keep that finger off the handle entirely). I'll see if I can take & post a pic of the hold I use, to give a clearer picture of what I'm describing...
Here's one pic (after which my camera batteries need changing...):



David
 
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As far as cleaning those rods, there is no way a dishwasher is going to do the job of removing the imbedded particulate. You need to use the comet or bar keepers friend and elbow grease. While I don't use the SM any longer, the hardware store I worked at had one and we used it daily. If a knife was super dull, we would rotate the rods to where the apex of the triangle made contact against the blade. While this does reduce the surface area making contact, it increases the pressure on a given area. Once a new bevel was cut, we would then rotate them to the usual position and use the flats. Then on to the white rods.

IMHO, the Sharpmaker is an extremely useful tool to sharpen a knife. It is so quick and painless. And if you have good hand eye control, you can angle the blade (instead of keeping it vertical) for a larger angle or smaller angle. Kinda obvious...but thought I would mention it!

David, I am fairly new to the MTE part of BF. Your posts on sharpening seem to me to be dead on the money! I'm no expert, but have been sharpening freehand since I was taught by both grandfathers at the age of about 7. I do it for free for people, I enjoy it so much! Your knowledge goes way above mine. I've learned quite a bit from you and another fellow from the Towards .1 micron project.....Cliff Stamp.

Now every edge pretty much gets a 10/15 combo. And I'm impressed. Thinking about trying a 7.5/12.5 combo on some W2 and 52100 soon!
 
Hey Stuart, thanks much for your very high praise. Considering your level of experience, that means a lot to me. I wasn't lucky enough to learn from either of my grandfathers or my Dad (to the same degree), and struggled with sharpening well into my 40s at least (I'm 53 now). Most of what I've learned has come since joining BF in 2009, learning from the other masters here; but once it 'clicked', it really took off. :thumbup:

Thanks again. :)


David
 
obsessed with edges..that technique is rock solid.....im where I wanna be with this knife now thanks to you...this will be the technique I will always use now..i knew I wasn't was doing something small wrong and u solved it..the case knife is razor sharp now.....thank you and and everyone else that helped me thru this
 
ive actually went back and corrected a few knives I had had almost right...10 minutes on each and they are right...
 
steeltowninwv said:
obsessed with edges..that technique is rock solid.....im where I wanna be with this knife now thanks to you...this will be the technique I will always use now..i knew I wasn't was doing something small wrong and u solved it..the case knife is razor sharp now.....thank you and and everyone else that helped me thru this
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Good to hear things worked out. BTW, all of the things I suggested looking at are the same things I originally went through with these V-crock sharpeners (I have maybe 6-8 different sets, including the SM). I suspect those are most of the usual speed bumps on the road to figuring it all out, so you're not alone. :)


David
 
An ink eraser is excellent for cleaning ceramic rods, but it sounds to me like you need a strop. Shoot me an email through my web site and I'll send you a chunk of leather with some compound on it.
 
chief thank you very much email was sent.....that will give me something to play around with while im stuck inside this winter
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Good to hear things worked out. BTW, all of the things I suggested looking at are the same things I originally went through with these V-crock sharpeners (I have maybe 6-8 different sets, including the SM). I suspect those are most of the usual speed bumps on the road to figuring it all out, so you're not alone. :)


David
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David you are a very modest man. Hard to find that these days. Admirable, yep admirable.
 
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