I'm getting frustrated sharpening s30v! Any advice?

Surfingringo

Surfingringo

Joined
May 25, 2013
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Hey all, I got a paramilitary 2 a month ago and really like the knife. I'm pretty bummed though that I can't get the same hair popping edge that I can get on other steels. For example I am able to get my manix 2 LW to a different level of sharp. Don't get me wrong, I get the pm2 sharp. Very sharp. It will shave hair in one pass and push cut newsprint, but I get the bd1 sharper. I can push cut coffee filters with that one. And the hairs just fly off when it touches them.

Ok, I know this doesn't make a ton of difference in real world use, but y'all know how it is! ;). I want it as sharp as it can get! It's kind of a bummer that I like the pm2 WAY better than the manix, but I get the better edge on the manix. :(.

I know that s30v is a significantly harder steel, but man, I have spent HOURS working on the pm2 and can't get the kind of edge I get on the bd1 in five minutes. It's frustrating!

I put a (approximately) 30 degrees back bevel on both and am using the 40 degrees on the sharpmaker for a micro bevel. Any tips on how to get a better edge on the s30v??

Thanks,

Lance
 
Depends on what you're using. And I don't believe you need to spend hours. You grind on the coarsest grit until you raise a burr, then you move onto the next. When refining, it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes, and I would stop once I raised a burr on both sides twice.

Another thing to be aware of is that S30V and similar steels simply won't take a very keen edge because of all the carbides. It's meant to take a working "toothy" edge and keep it for a long time.
 
Ok, good to know. I think my technique is relatively sound, I just can't get that "over the top" edge on the s30v. Like I said, it's extremely sharp...im just able to get a little more out of the bd1.

P.S. when I say hours, most of that 5-10 minute sessions of OCD light work on fine stones trying to get that last bit of "hair whittling" edge on it. ;)
 
Here is one suggestion for a final stropping.
Cut a piece of card board and lay it flat on a table. Use trailing strokes, the spine leads and give a little rise in the spine as you get to the end of your stroke. I have used this personally with great results on several of the CPM steels.
CPM-154, CPM-S35VN & CPM-S35 along with others.

Noctis3880's point about the carbides is correct, the cardboard helps burnish the other properties in the steel.

Give it a try.

Laurence
 
Noctis3880 said:
Depends on what you're using. And I don't believe you need to spend hours. You grind on the coarsest grit until you raise a burr, then you move onto the next. When refining, it shouldn't take more than 10 minutes, and I would stop once I raised a burr on both sides twice.

Another thing to be aware of is that S30V and similar steels simply won't take a very keen edge because of all the carbides. It's meant to take a working "toothy" edge and keep it for a long time.
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Hello,

Im not trying to be rude or confrontational in any way but I disagree with you on S30v not being able to take a keen edge. Most of my folders are S30V and if I do my part they all can do a hanging hair cut test. Reprofiling the factory edge seemed to help, the factory edge was good but I like it a little leaner. I start with a coarse DMT, then a Fine DMT, and finish with a extra fine DMT( 220, 600, 1200 grits I think). In between each stone I strop to remove the burr on a wood backed leather strop with black compound. When I finish with the extra fine I give it 3 or 4 passed at a slightly higher angle forming a micro bevel. Then finish the knife on a canvas strop loaded with white compound for about 5 passes per side. Make sure you raise a burr before you change grits and use a sharpie if you dont think your angle is right. YMMV

Have a good one,

Chris
 
Diamond stones and diamond compound, it does wonders for highly wear resist steels.
 
socalkid said:
Hello,

Im not trying to be rude or confrontational in any way but I disagree with you on S30v not being able to take a keen edge. Most of my folders are S30V and if I do my part they all can do a hanging hair cut test. Reprofiling the factory edge seemed to help, the factory edge was good but I like it a little leaner. I start with a coarse DMT, then a Fine DMT, and finish with a extra fine DMT( 220, 600, 1200 grits I think). In between each stone I strop to remove the burr on a wood backed leather strop with black compound. When I finish with the extra fine I give it 3 or 4 passed at a slightly higher angle forming a micro bevel. Then finish the knife on a canvas strop loaded with white compound for about 5 passes per side. Make sure you raise a burr before you change grits and use a sharpie if you dont think your angle is right. YMMV

Have a good one,

Chris
Click to expand...
True, that was worded wrong. It's not that S30V can't take a keen edge, it's just that it doesn't take it easily and doesn't hold it that long. Part of the issue is the fact that the carbides are in rather large chunks. A steel with a somewhat similar makeup but with better carbide segregation like Elmax or M390 tends to take and hold a keen edge much better.

In any case, diamonds is cheating <_<.
 
Man, I have the same issue. I really hate s30v. I can put a scary sharp edge on 154cm but my pm2 in s30v just points and laughs at me when I try to get it scary sharp.

I've put about 30-40 minutes in each session, 2 sessions(different days) and it's nothing compared to the sharpness of my ZT in 154cm.
 
40 inclusive micro should be enough to contain all the cardbides. I suspect you haven't fully apexed it. Jason's suggestion to use diamond will help this, although I don't have S30V, I have diamond stones and it's super agressive!
 
It's not magic and not impossible to sharpen; it's just very wear-resistant stuff and usually run pretty hard (60+). Keep at it and make sure you are hitting your apex.
 
Chris "Anagarika";12553752 said:
40 inclusive micro should be enough to contain all the cardbides. I suspect you haven't fully apexed it. Jason's suggestion to use diamond will help this, although I don't have S30V, I have diamond stones and it's super agressive!
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Hey chris, thanks for the ideas. Let me give a bit more detail. Talking about the manix (bd1) and the pm2 (s30v), both knives are very sharp. Both will shave my arm, leg, or face. Both will pushcut phone book paper. Both will cleanly cut hanging toilet paper with a light chopping motion. I am new at sharpening, so at this point I am just pushing as far as I can to see just how sharp I can get them. What is apparent is that regardless of the amount of work I put in, I can get a slightly meaner edge on the manix. I can get it to do things that I just can't get the pm2 to do. Silly things that have no real world value like push cutting coffee filters. It still frustrates me that I can't get that "novelty edge" on the pm2 though.

I'm pretty sure that the knife has been fully apexed or it would not perform like it does. Just can't get it quite as freaky sharp as bd1. Maybe it's the steel, maybe it's me. Not sure.
 
Lance,

In that case, I can't think of anything else but the steel being inherently toothy.

If you check spyderco forum, there're some discussion that a lower carbide stewl usually can have meaner (crazily polished) than higher carbide steel. I don't have S30V, so can't test myself..

Some other stropping/finishing might work better, so maybe experiment a bit ;). Try Washboard or Balance Strop.

Hopefully Singularity will chime in.
 
Back to basics time here. Did you use a sharpie or magic marker to paint the edge first? Do you have a magnifying glass to check it with? Are you sure you don't have a burr there now? Do you have a good strop (leather on wood) and some type of finishing compound? I don't recommend a burr, just light pressure to reveal the edge is all you need here.
 
Lol. I'm just being OCD. Been playing with em this morning. Both of them will slow push/slice toilet paper at this point...the manix just does it a bit easier and cleaner. I found the s30v a LOT more finicky to get that edge on than the bd1. Seems to me that the bd1 is a little more forgiving of imperfections in my technique. I am not using a strop (don't have one), I'm finishing on the sharpmaker white stones. Maybe that s30v just needs a stropping more than the bd1.

Thanks for all the input guys. Don't worry, I've definitely gone full blown OCD, but at least I'm having fun with it! ;)
 
First, I never use a coarse grit stone unless re-profiling a poorly factory set knife. Most times I do not even use the medium grit. For the most part, a strop on an old leather belt is all I need. However, one time I helped an old-school barber sharpen his straight razor. Others can probably clarify but I think he used the glass piece that holds the filament in a sodium vapor light bulb to do his final touches. He used it just like a stone but without oil. It was amazing. He held a loose piece of hair in his finger and cut it off about an inch away from his fingers. The edge was crazy sharp.

If anyone knows what I am talking about let me know because I was never let in on the "trade" secret and I would sure like to add the item to my sharpening setup.
 
Chris "Anagarika";12554271 said:
Lance,

In that case, I can't think of anything else but the steel being inherently toothy.

If you check spyderco forum, there're some discussion that a lower carbide stewl usually can have meaner (crazily polished) than higher carbide steel. I don't have S30V, so can't test myself..

Some other stropping/finishing might work better, so maybe experiment a bit ;). Try Washboard or Balance Strop.

Hopefully Singularity will chime in.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I have seen a video of him getting a Millie or a pm really sharp with the sharpmaker. I am assuming it was a s30v model and not a sprint run...not sure. Would be interested in hearing his thoughts on sharpening s30v.
 
Magnaminous_G said:
It's not magic and not impossible to sharpen; it's just very wear-resistant stuff and usually run pretty hard (60+). Keep at it and make sure you are hitting your apex.
Click to expand...
Spyderco runs it a bit harder at Rc 60 more consistently. I believe Benchmade and Kershaw runs it at Rc 58-60. Chris Reeve Knives tends to be Rc 57-59. To my knowledge, only a few custom makers will run it above Rc 60.
 
Surfingringo said:
Agreed. I have seen a video of him getting a Millie or a pm really sharp with the sharpmaker. I am assuming it was a s30v model and not a sprint run...not sure. Would be interested in hearing his thoughts on sharpening s30v.
Click to expand...

Have you tried the sharpie trick on your PM yet gringo? If I had to guess, I would say the bevel angle is a bit over 40° inclusive and that you're not hitting the edge with the sharpmaker's 40° setting. I assume you are using the 40°.

S30V gets pretty sharp though it loses that fine edge fast. Keeps that working edge for quite some time too.
 
S30V will take a very fine, polished edge, but the large amount of very hard carbides responds best to diamond hones, in my experience. I have tried honing S30V on a black Arkansas stone and it seemed to take forever to put on the finishing edge.
 
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