I'm getting frustrated sharpening s30v! Any advice?

[Omega Leather Works]

Yup s30v will take a mirror polished edge. My last one was 15dps, and it was a great cutter. Aside from all the nonsense, arguing and rebuttal, it absolutely was chippy, but still what I would consider good.

I applied that particular edge with a basic Lansky kit. It was a nightmare and I'll never sharpen a similar steel in that manner again, but I'm proof that it can be reprofiled using ceramic and other "regular" sharpening media.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Yup s30v will take a mirror polished edge. My last one was 15dps, and it was a great cutter. Aside from all the nonsense, arguing and rebuttal, it absolutely was chippy, but still what I would consider good.

I applied that particular edge with a basic Lansky kit. It was a nightmare and I'll never sharpen a similar steel in that manner again, but I'm proof that it can be reprofiled using ceramic and other "regular" sharpening media.

That sounds painfully familiar.

I winced in reading this, thinking about how I managed to ruin a couple of my 'regular' Lansky hones trying to re-bevel a ZT-0350 in S30V. I finished the bevels with a diamond hone I'd added as a supplement to the regular kit, after deeply de-flattening two of the regular hones. That kit got 'retired' coming away from that job, and replaced with a full diamond kit. I did hang onto the two ceramic finishing hones from the older kit; they've always been good.

Like you, never again. But it did teach me a TON about S30V. For that, I've always been grateful.


David

 

[hank_rearden]

strangely, i get a really sharp edge on my digicam millie only by spending a lot of time light stropping on plain leather.

 

[Surfingringo]

I reprofiled again today. This time on the sm...and yeah, it took forever. Marked with sharpie, the whole deal. The pm2 is extremely sharp. Pretty much exactly as sharp as it was yesterday...and still not quite as sharp as my manix in bd1. Same tools, same technique, lots of patience, proper angles, proper apex. I have come to the conclusion that bd1 takes a slightly keener edge than s30v. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has worked with bd1. I am very impressed with the edge it will take.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

I reprofiled again today. This time on the sm...and yeah, it took forever. Marked with sharpie, the whole deal. The pm2 is extremely sharp. Pretty much exactly as sharp as it was yesterday...and still not quite as sharp as my manix in bd1. Same tools, same technique, lots of patience, proper angles, proper apex. I have come to the conclusion that bd1 takes a slightly keener edge than s30v. I would be interested to hear from anyone who has worked with bd1. I am very impressed with the edge it will take.

Don't have any BD1 blades, but in looking at the makeup of it online the other day, it seems similar to something like 440C (carbon around ~1%, pretty high chromium at ~16%). The significant thing it doesn't have, as compared to S30V, is the large amount of vanadium (BD1 = 0.1%, which is almost none; S30V = 3%, which is huge). That means BD1's vanadium content is 1/30th the vanadium content in S30V. The lack of vanadium in BD1 means there's essentially no vanadium carbides in this steel. Whereas there's a huge abundance of it in S30V. Combine that with approximately 50% greater carbon in S30V, than in BD1. The extra carbon + vanadium in S30V combine to form vanadium carbides. The vanadium carbides tend to be rather large/chunky and extremely hard. That is what makes attaining a super-fine edge on S30V so challenging, because those large and extremely hard carbides are difficult to hone thinly without causing them to fracture out of an otherwise thin edge. Vanadium carbides essentially don't exist in BD1. So, those large vanadium 'cobblestones in the concrete' aren't in the way, and therefore don't present the same blunt & hard obstacle to sharpening.

So, in a nutshell, the differences you've noticed in sharpening these two are exactly what I would've expected. The advantage to having abundant vanadium carbides is in the wear-resistance of the steel, which is why it holds a 'utility' edge so long, but also why it's hard to make that edge as fine, and why a fine edge doesn't stay as long (because the vanadium carbides chip/fracture out of the thin edge pretty quickly).


David

 

[Surfingringo]

Hey David, thank you very much for that information! That was well worded and makes a lot of sense and it fits my experience to a tee! The edge I've got on my pm2 now is pretty extreme, I was just baffled that I couldn't quiiite match the bd-1. The pm2 is my every day utility knife and now that I've explored the limits of what I can do with s30v, I think I'm just going to start using the grey stones to do quick touch ups. The s30v takes a pretty mean edge with just a few stokes to the micro bevel with those medium rods!

p.s. I'm thinking to pick up a Gayle Bradley soon and im curious about your thoughts on these sharpening and edge holding factors as they relate to m4. Thanks again.

Lance

 

[Surfingringo]

Oddly enough, the more I work with the s30v, the more I believe that it takes a sharper edge finishing with the grey medium rods than the white! Slices better, cuts fibrous paper better, shaves better, everything. Seems odd, but those are the results I'm getting.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Oddly enough, the more I work with the s30v, the more I believe that it takes a sharper edge finishing with the grey medium rods than the white! Slices better, cuts fibrous paper better, shaves better, everything. Seems odd, but those are the results I'm getting.

That's also why many say it responds better to a somewhat coarser finish, which complements the somewhat 'toothy' character of the carbides along the edge. A diamond hone, like DMT's 'Fine' (600 mesh/25 micron), seems to be popular with this steel.


David

 

[Chris "Anagarika"]

Lance,

What Davis says is spot on. It's essentially the same as what cliff stamp been saying too on the spyderco.com forum. He made a video too to explain it.

 

[Surfingringo]

Lance,

What Davis says is spot on. It's essentially the same as what cliff stamp been saying too on the spyderco.com forum. He made a video too to explain it.

Hah, that's funny! I JUST spent the last 45 minutes reading his thoughts over there!!

 

[Magnaminous_G]

Spyderco runs it a bit harder at Rc 60 more consistently. I believe Benchmade and Kershaw runs it at Rc 58-60. Chris Reeve Knives tends to be Rc 57-59. To my knowledge, only a few custom makers will run it above Rc 60.

I think Buck runs it at 60-61.

 

[Noctis3880]

I think Buck runs it at 60-61.

Yeah, Buck is a special little cookie. I just find it a pity that their cheaper S30V folder(I believe it's the Vantage Pro) doesn't come with thicker liners, as that would be the one I would want to regrind.