I'm just not meant to sharpen apparently

My guess is that you're not spending enough time on your low grit stones. This is one of the most common sharpening mistakes. Many knives are sharpened by the manufacturer / factory to around 25 degrees per side, so going to 20 (or even 15) per side will require removing a fair bit of steel to reach the apex. The first sharpening of any factory knife takes patience and time. 20 or 30 strokes won't be near enough, you'll need to do a few hundred strokes minimum with your coarse stone to grind metal away and shape your apex for the first time, eventually creating a burr.

Once your edges are re-profiled to your preferred angle, future sharpening will be fast.
 
I was always a mediocre freehand sharpening. I can get a decent edge, but it was too much work and too little results for me. I started with a Gatco and had better results, but nothing to brag about. I bit the bullet and went with the Wicked Edge. Repeatable, easy and the best edges that I've ever had.
 
ATW, Brian has given you some good advice above, and I have a complimentary idea (for demonstration purposes). Do you have a bench grinder, and a small piece of scrap sheet metal? An old hinge leaf or putty knife would work fine.

Place the thin metal so the edge is facing downward and perpendicular to the 60 grit wheel. Start the grinder and press the edge to the wheel with about 1 lb of pressure. Within a few seconds you will produce a burr (and possibly a blue stripe) along the contact area. After inspecting it, flip the scrap metal around and grind the other side for about half as long, so your two grinds meet at a (burred) apex. Inspect that.

This is a very crude and quick representation of the burr formation process, just for proof of concept. You will recreate it in a more refined fashion on your stones/plates with a knife blade.

If this is a dumb idea, ignore it and move on. But I offer it in hopes of improving your mental picture of what’s happening down there at the microscopic edge. Best of luck to you.

Parker
 
If your knife is hair popping sharp but won't easily slice tomato skin, it's probably a highly polished edge. Having a little tooth to the edge helps the blade bite into tomato skin. I find 1000 grit to be a good balance for slicing (toothy good) and push cutting (polished good) for kitchen knives.

If y'all are struggling with the Sharp Maker and/or freehand, I'd highly recommend a fixed angle system, which is basically idiot proof if you follow the directions (no offense ;)). Some popular brands are Lansky, Work Sharp (Precision Adjust), KME, Hapstone, TSProf, Wicked Edge, Edge Pro, etc. They run anywhere from around $40 to over $1,000. Some of the less expensive ones are limited to relatively short blades, so make sure you read the fine print if you go that way.

Another option would be angle guides for bench stones, which are *nearly* idiot proof. DMT and Hapstone (and possibly others) make those and they're relatively cheap at $15-$35 .

Here's a review/demo of the DMT guide:

excellent video, I did not know those guides existed.
 
When you have dull blades and limited sharpening systems, it can feel discouraging for sure. I've been there!

A Against_The_Wind , you desperately need 3 things:

1. A paring knife from a thrift store. Any decent blade that's 3 to 5 inches long will do, but it needs to be THIN like a paring knife. This will be the first blade you put a truly sharp edge on.
2. Secret #6, The Burr.
3. Secret #7, The Course Stone.

It's absolutely essential that you raise a burr and detect it. A paring knife, with its thin geometry will let you do that relatively fast. Of all the sharpening systems you own, you appear to have 2 stones that are somewhat coarse:

A. Spyderco diamond rods. These should be fairly coarse, but you called them "fine", so I'm not 100% sure now. The diamond rods for the Sharpmaker that I'm familiar with are relatively course; my guess is in the neighborhood of 200 grit.
B. The "coarse" plate for the worksharp field sharpener. They call this diamond plate 220 grit, which is pretty coarse. Ideally you'd have something twice this coarse at 100 grit or so, but 220 should do.

Both of these stones are problematic as they are diamond. Diamond is a good abrasive. But if you use hard pressure on them, it's easy to break them off and end up with a plate with almost no diamonds on it. You really need a more traditional coarse stone like a Coarse Crystolon, Coarse India, or similar hardware store stone. Your diamonds will work. But you'll have to be more careful with them to keep from damaging them.

Use your coarse stone on one side of the paring knife until you raise a burr. Switch every few minutes, or after 100 or so strokes if you want. Or just keep going on one side. If you grind on one side only, you are doing to end up with an ugly bevel on that side, that's extra wide. But it will get sharp. ...and you should have paid no more than $5 for this practice knife, so you shouldn't care if you ugly it up. :)

When you raise a nice big burr, you will feel it easily. You will also be able to see it if you angle it in the light. OBSERVE your progress as you go (secret #4). Do use a sharpie. But also, observe the grind lines on the bevel. Watch and see as they progress down the blade.

Wanna know the biggest most common problem for people not raising a burr? They simply don't grind for long enough. Most beginners are worried about destroying a blade and grind too slowly and not nearly long enough. Just keep grinding and you'll get a burr.

After you raise a burr and you feel and/or see it, keep going until that burr is all the way down the entire length of the blade. You might have to use Secret #5, selective grinding, in order to focus your sharpening on parts of the blade that do not yet have a burr. Once you DO have that big burr on the entire length of one side, do the other side. You'll quickly erase the burr from side A and raise one on side B. The second side is always much faster and won't take much time.

From there it's a matter of removing that burr and making sure it's all gone. Secret #6 has a few suggestions for burr removal, but you might want to seek out other resources for burr removal as well.

If it's not clear I'm referencing my article "The Seven Secrets Of Sharpening" at the top of this forum.

You'll have a much easier time of making your first blade really sharp with the 3 things above: cheap thin practice blade, course stone, and BURR.

Best of luck!
Brian.
Brian,

Sorry, on the sharpmaker, I have the extra fine stones, NOT the diamonds as I mistakenly mentioned.

So I will follow your advice with the diamonds plates on the worksharp, thanks for the tip about being more careful with diamonds.
 
cant say I read all the posts in this thread so I may have missed someone else already noting the following but these are things that have helped me through the sharpening experience which I am still trying to perfect....
1. Get the right tool for the job, I have had a lot of luck with diamond stones
2. Patience is the key (which at times I lack but the above stones do help with that a bit but dont be in a hurry)
3. Touch, not only do you want to make sure you get the angle right but I find to get the best edge it benefits from a light finishing touch

hope maybe that helps a bit.
 
on the sharpmaker...i find it best on keeping up with the edge for touchups....once dull its a lot more work.

I've also found using a sharpmaker I rely less on holding my hand straight and more finding the angle and maintaining it...think more like using a benchstone but just upright and angled a bit. I use the 30 degree side. I just adjust my hand to match the angles of the knife.

lastly remember that a lot of factory edges were put on by hand and a belt. it won't always be even angles across the whole edge, or both sides. his can make sharpening frustrating.
sometimes I have to hold my hand at one angle for one side and a different angle for the other side. Ive found its just easier and faster for me to replicate the factory edge angles until I reprofile, which I use diamond benchstones or belt sander for that.
 
....You might want to get a coarse/X-coarse diamond stone to do the rough profiling of the edge.....

....The biggest thing I have found is having a good quality extra coarse stone to set your bevels. ....

....3. Secret #7, The Course Stone.....

....This is likely at least part of the problem. If you aren't feeling it, that probably indicates it hasn't been raised.

I struggled for a long time because, like many first time sharpeners, I thought FINE stones meant MORE sharp and I wanted my knives to be sharp so I would use medium and fine stones and would be scratching my head why I couldn't get the results I wanted....

I realized I got measurably better at truly "Sharpening" when I started to spend the most time (at least when setting my edge for the first time) with the coarsest stone I have. Everything after that is honing.

My guess is that you're not spending enough time on your low grit stones. This is one of the most common sharpening mistakes.....
I know this isn't my thread, but I'm left with the distinct impression that I'm probably not spending enough quality time with my coarse stones.
 
I know this isn't my thread, but I'm left with the distinct impression that I'm probably not spending enough quality time with my coarse stones.
Could be! The saying is that 90% of sharpening is getting it right on the first stone. Everything else is just cleaning up. Personally, I'd say that 40% is getting it right on the course stone, 40% is deburring, and the other 20% is just cosmetic. But it's true, as a rule, around 80-90% of the TIME spent sharpening should be on the course stone.

At the end of the day, sharpening is dead simple. You raise a burr (apexing the edge), and then eliminate the burr (perfecting the edge).
 
I realized I got measurably better at truly "Sharpening" when I started to spend the most time (at least when setting my edge for the first time) with the coarsest stone I have. Everything after that is honing.

Yep, geometry with the coarse grit, surface finishing with the finer grits. Ideally.
 
90% of the sharpening results are from the coarse stone(s). No, check that 95%. EVERYTHING ELSE is taking out the marks from the preceding coarser grit stones. Knife should come off the coarsest stone you use with a sharp - really sharp and very toothy - edge. And then it's easy to perfect/polish the edge with progressively finer media until you're happy.
 
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