I'm noticing new makers improve incredibly quickly

D

Don Nguyen

Joined
Oct 4, 2011
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Granted, I'm still a newbie.

I've seen many new knife makers start around the same time as myself or after, and their work is improving at such a scary rate. I think it's fantastic, but at the same time I get competitive too ;)

Was this always the case, or is it a new trend due to available resources?
 
Available resources has shortened the learning curve for many people in various endeavors. Whether knifemaking or under water basket weaving, the individual must take advantage of those resources and give 110% in order to succeed.

Although I had fooled around with making knives for many years, when I started getting serious early in 2004, I made the decision to try and learn all aspects surrounding the craft. I studied, I visited other makers, I attended hammer-ins, I read, and re-read all that I could.

Have I arrived?............ No, and I will never arrive. There is simply too much to learn in such a short time.

Learning this craft is a never ending journey and must be a labor of love that includes daily challenges, failures, and accomplishments.
 
Information is at our finger tips and so is the ability to get the tools and materials. It is easier to start up then ever before.

I enjoy all the vast different styles makers have.
 
I have been fascinated with knives since I was very small. I had hoped I'd be a natural at this since I've loved knives all my life and I am a professional artist. Um, no. I think most people start off in the same place. It is a hard craft to master and like any craft worth mastering it is a life-long journey. I started my journey in earnest a couple of years ago. I took a few classes with a Mastersmith and attended a few hammer-ins. I spend most of my spare time researching, reading, studying and practicing. I am on this website all the time asking questions and reading, reading, reading and reading some more. There is about 2000 years of accumulated experience, knowledge and wisdom in the hands and minds of the members here and they are happy to share it! You don't have to ask me twice. Yes please, I'll have some of that. I think it comes down to hard work, commitment to the goal and being humble. That is, not being afraid to ask questions and then following the advice from people who are generous enough to share their time and knowledge. But BF is only one source of information. You Tube, various makers' websites, books, videos and lots of other places are terrific resources for information, tutorials and supplies. This has shortened the learning curve of many new makers significantly. Of course nothing teaches better than doing so I spend as much time as I can making knives and applying the knowledge I gain here and elsewhere. I have seen vast improvement personally. I am still far, far away from the skill of many of the folks here but at least I'm on my way. So, to everyone who has shared their knowledge with me, THANK YOU!
 
I have noticed the same thing and I'll bet the ease and ability to start and the information to start it greater than ever. I don't know for sure but I think many guys get to decent knives really fast and then it takes many a wile to figure out the details are what seem to take forever to master and many give up after a few years and they end there.
interesting though
CH....
 
I attempted to make knives in 1978. I was 25 and always wanted to do it. It was pretty discourging not knowing any knife makers and trying to learn from a book. Building a family and a business took priority and lack of cash at the time didn't help either. Fast forward to 2012. Sold business, kids educated and out and some disposal income to invest in new equipment. But the biggest ingredient is the internet. There is nothing you can't find about the process of knife making. The guys on this and other forums are an invaluable asset to the learning experience. I've learned a lot and I know I've got a lot to learn. One of the big things I've learned is take your time. It's easier to do it right the first time than to do it a second time.
 
I have noticed, due to the relatively recent "pay-it-forward" mentality in this craft, that knifemaking seems to be one of the most well documented and discussed hobbies or professions on the internet. Other things I have researched often have significantly less breadth and quality of resources available.
That said, I do agree that almost everything has become much easier to learn with the internet age.
I learned how to tie a turk's head knot from a youtube video today. Always wanted to, never put in the work until now- and it has proven quite easy to pick up at least the basic idea.
Then, once I get to tying it with twised wire onto hilts, there are several pages where folks who do just that all the time have kindly shared many tips and tricks for the process.
It's really amazing. Sometimes I have almost a latent pride issue, like I don't want to ask someone how they did something- but I quickly push it aside, because the most important thing is to make the best knives possible and to learn as much and as fast as possible.

Another interesting thing I have observed is that there are still a few secrets- or at least, knowledge that the holders feel should be earned by trial and error rather than given for "free."
 
I think one of the reasons people are able to learn so fast is that the internet provides people with the ability to consume the information in a way that is most conducive to learning. Before it was all in print. For some folks that's enough but other learn visually, hands on(take laptop/youtube to shop and go step-by-step with video), or by auditory means.

We're really spoon fed information these days. In one way it's great but I think there might be a little bit lost in translation. What I mean by that is that the experience gained by figuring things out on your own and failing shapes artist's style and makes it unique. It makes it easy to pursue the path of least resistance and imitate other makers. I suppose we all start out enjoying knives based on our taste and it only makes sense that we create in the same way. I'm a new maker and I feel like I've done okay thus far. What's important to me is that, in each of my new knives, I'm able to identify flaws or things that can be improved. That's the key to learning and improving for me. Oh well, I'm rambling again...

Cheers to the other new makers and more seasoned ones who do such a great job supporting us!
 
There is a lot of resources for knifemakers. I learned it here at Bladeforums and with the GA Guild. I wish I could have apprenticed though. I see a lot of that now, and I've watched the apprentices here learn the craft (to the very basic level I can teach) quickly. I spent a year learning to grind a decent bevel. The apprentices that have been through here learn it a lot faster. Within a few tries usually. Dylan and I stand by with a sharpie highlighting problems and teaching then how to fix or avoid them. It took me ages to figure out these little tips. Several guys in the GA Guild teach a small group of makers as well. The GA Guild does an immense learning resource for its makers. Four meetings a year in 4 different shops with three demo's per meeting, constant encouragement and guidance, honest criticism. Each time a newb shows up we find out where they live and introduce them to a maker in his area that may mentor them. The teaching is a beautiful aspect of the knifemaking community. There is a clockmaker across the parking lot from me. He's always amazed that we share and teach the craft. Clockmaker conventions are quiet and grumpy he says with nobody sharing anything.
 
I agree with what the other folks said... I do think new makers are progressing quickly, and I do think the level of sharing in our little world is much higher than in other crafts/trades. I certainly wouldn't be wherever I am without that.

I'd also like to point that this is a great thing for our clients, because it really raises the bar on quality. That can make it tougher for a maker to stand out, but I tend to feel like the best still get noticed.
 
You still see the lawnmower blade and 2x4" makers despite all the info in the world

but those who want to do well do; do well.
 
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I agree with what everyone has said already. I think a lot of us come into this hobby with a background that includes skills that transfer over. I grew up on a farm, and in high school my shop teacher said I was a pleasure to work with. He pointed out many of his students had to figure out the grip on a pair of pliers or a screwdriver before they could start working on projects. I had rebuilt motors and swapped engines already. Before making knives, I made musical instruments, furniture, and bicycle frames. Ian Hall is a perfect example. He has such a strong fabrication background, that his first knives were better than many at a year or two in to the hobby.

Even with all of the available information, we still have to do it. The muscle memory, heat treat perfection, geometry tweaks only come from real world experience. We see over and over makers who vary their heat treat by a few degrees here or there based on whatever variables are happening to perfect their knives. We also have to weed through all the crap on youtube and instructibles that misleads us to find out what really works.
 
Hesparus said:
Don Nguyen -

I seem to recall you improving pretty quickly yourself.

- Chris
Click to expand...

Thanks Chris! It's definitely for all the reasons explained by everyone here. I studied hard with the resources abundant here. It's a never ending journey for improvement for I think it's more of a journey trying to prioritize what to focus on rather than what to find. I'm trying to learn by drinking through a fire hydrant. I imagine that some years back it might have been the opposite (or at least, just not as resourceful as today).

At the same time, it also seems like knife making has gotten more popular in general (thus bringing a bigger population).
 
Pat, an example would be Howard Clark's bainite/martensite katanas. To get the necessary heat treating regime to result in that complex structure, took Howard a while to figure out- it's not that easy and requires some specialized equipment.
So, when asked (at least in the past) a handful of smiths who either directly knew how he does it or had figured it out themselves would be evasive about it- seemingly out of respect to Mr. Clark's hard won knowledge. I witnessed this (at least that was my take) on other forums in the past.
Even that method can be found though, with some diligent reading and research on your own. I think in this type of situation, sometimes it is better if the neophyte reaches a conclusion on their own or with some vague hints. Heck, if given the magic bainite katana recipe free for the asking, probably 1 (or less) out of 500 pilgrims would go home and go to the necessary lengths to follow it anyway. And that 1 in 500 would have put in the work to "figure it out" on his own anyway, probably. There are few secrets in metallurgy as we use it, to anyone willing to slog through hundreds of pages of very dry data.

Another secret of a different sort would be the heat treatment of INFI. But that's a trade secret, you might say- well, most of the stuff we learn for free from other smiths would have been guarded as trade secrets in the past.
 
There's a continuing trend that was first noted in the sixties with the "back to the land" movement, in which very well educated people feel drawn to express themselves by working with their hands.
You can define "educated" any way you want, but the result is that a lot of people with keen artistic sense, well developed observational skills, and the willingness to study intently are dedicating themselves to activities which, a few generations ago, would have been populated by those who had, at best, an apprenticeship.
An apprenticeship is probably the single best way to gain really solid skills, but without the above qualities, it remains just another dirty job.
The other factor is that as women re-entered the workplace post WW2, and families had fewer and fewer children, it was inevitable that family incomes would eventually double, effectively, when after decades of struggle women arrived at top paying positions in great numbers.
Though some of the very top makers are female, they're a tiny minority of the top, say, 20% of people who make knives. So many men are able to take time to develop a craft as a labor of love who, several generations ago, might not have had the option.
****************
I think too much.
It would be easier to answer the question by saying, "Because we can."

I'm not an example of what Don observed- started making knives in about 2008 and I'm STILL struggling to make JUST ONE J.S. quality knife. O well.
 
I just wish all of you smart people weren't getting into knifemaking because it makes me look bad.
Why don't you go build a space-station or something - sheesh!!!
 
Just be glad that they are smart folks getting into an honest trade, instead of banking or the stock market! ;)
 
My friend and mentor Wally Hayes said that 20-30 years ago was very different. Lots of "secrets" and a constant feeling that questions weren't welcomed. The ABS and various guilds have done well to promote knifemaking. I was in the tool & mold industry for 14yrs prior to knifemaking. Then I kinda went the other way with forging. Think of going from .0001" tolerances to hitting stuff with a hammer. I still see things in tight tolerances but love the freedom of the organic/rustic look. Having worked in the industry helped a lot but I think anyone with discipline, self-motivation and an open-minded willingness to learn can chug forward at a good clip.
 
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