I'm SICK of the PRYING LECTURES!

fulloflead

fulloflead

Joined
May 3, 2002
Messages
6,192
Rant mode ON: :mad:

I'm SICK and TIRED of all the LECTURES every time I ask about hard-use knives!

I would think that people with a couple hundred posts on this forum would understand knives to a certain extent. But, STILL...

People keep sending this quote about, "A knife is the most expensive prybar you'll ever own."

Well... DUH! :rolleyes:

But there's NOTHING WRONG with someone asking about a knife that could be a prybar, scraper, chisel, etc. in ADDITION to it's use as a knife!

Most of us KNOW that knives are used for cutting, but it's REASONABLE to expect answers about products that were DESIGNED to be used for more than simple cutting.

IN FACT, companies like Emerson, Strider, Busse/Swamprat, Becker and others have INTENTIONALLY designed their knives so they COULD be used for hard-use including prying and they PRIDE themselves on their knives' ability to handle things a knife isn't usually supposed to do.

Sure, I wouldn't ever use a nice custom or a Randall knife to pry a rock out of a hill, but there ARE knives that ARE designed to be used for nasty crap like that when needed. So it's not like it's a crazy idea!

It's reasonable to expect, with today's knife and steel technology, to expect to be able to do more with a knife than cut with those knives from manufacturers who've designed them to do more.

When I or someone else asks about prying with a knife, PLEASE, don't give me or them a bunch of crap! Because it's NOT an unrealistic question. Many manufacturers have anticipated that kind of hard use and have designed their knives to serve multi-purpose uses INCLUDING prying. Often times it's just a question of which knife is best at which particular hard use.

So, the next time you see someone asking about prying or any other use of a knife...
that they might need for more, other than cutting,
if you really feel the need to shoot the person down
for expecting more than one use out of the knife,
if you don't have ANYTHING ELSE to contribute...

you should just GO SCHIT IN YOUR HAT.

Rant mode OFF.

Thank you!
 
Problem ist, that some try to open crates with their SAK and use their Busses and Striders for cleaning fingernails and opening letters. The more they pay the more they are afraid of unsing it. :D
 
The thing is, if you ask for an opinion on a forum, you should be prepared to get whatever opinion the responder has on the subject that is being discussed. If you don't want opinions that you don't like, then don't ask the question.
 
Keith Montgomery said:
The thing is, if you ask for an opinion on a forum, you should be prepared to get whatever opinion the responder has on the subject that is being discussed. If you don't want opinions that you don't like, then don't ask the question.
Click to expand...

Point taken and considered. :)
 
Grahamknives said:
I think of a knife as a tool, sometimes for cutting sometimes for other things. I don't think it is to much to ask for it to do more than just cut.
Click to expand...

Obviously there are trade-offs involved. There are plenty of "sharpened pry bars" out there, but I think better prying ability necessarily leads to less cutting efficiency. Depends on what you want, really.
 
I look at all these $300 CNC ground knives and agree; they should be able to do more than just cut. These puppies ought to be able to pry, dig, hack their way thru a Chevy and still cut. And many of them will do all of that.

Yep, seems some people are afraid to really use their 'hard use' knives.

A little side note: A friend asked me for an older USMC fighting knife by Ka-bar, Camillus, Imperial; he wasn't particular. Yes, I know brand new ones are cheap, but he wanted one from the period he was in the Corps. I looked at dozens and dozens on Ebay. You know what? I didn't see a single one with a broken tip. And those older warrior blades were used for any and all tasks.

I push my user knives as hard as I can. It my use of them destroys a knife, it wasn't worth owning anyway.
 
Grahamknives said:
I think of a knife as a tool, sometimes for cutting sometimes for other things. I don't think it is to much to ask for it to do more than just cut.
Click to expand...

Josh, your Avatar makes your point stronger than your words :D.
 
Nathan S said:
Obviously there are trade-offs involved. There are plenty of "sharpened pry bars" out there, but I think better prying ability necessarily leads to less cutting efficiency. Depends on what you want, really.
Click to expand...

I totally agree with Nathan.
 
It doesn't matter how good or hard use a knife is, it will NEVER stand up to the abuse of a REAL prybar. So why do it and risk damaging a hell of an investment? Unless its an emergency, its borderline ignorance to not use the right tool for the job.
 
I with ya! You can sure pry with any knife,it just matters what your prying.
There are things you can't pry with a knife,same as there are things you can't CUT with a knife.

Some say a knife is just for cutting. Really? Go out and cut a few lead pipes in half with your folder or a couple of cement blocks,let me know how well you make out.

They understand the limits to cutting but not prying.Myself any knife I buy prys up staples,stones out of shoe bottems,thumb tacks out of walls and so on.

On the job I use knives that can handle more prying.If you carry a knife as a rescue tool,it better damn well hold up to more than cutting.

The knife the original multi-tool. ;)
 
Hear, hear, FoL!!!

I use my Striders for whatever comes to mind... light prying (a 7" OAL blade doesn't lend itself well to heavy prying), cutting zip ties, banging on paint can lids...

They hold up just fine. *shrug*

I don't like being lectured about it either. :)

-j
 
You can design a knife to use as a prybar, but you have to pay for it in certain ways. If you want a stainless steel crowbar you need it extremely thick and you probably want a laminated blade design. This costs extra money and reduced cutting performance. If you are happy with carbon steel you don't need as thick a blade, but it will still be thicker than optimum for cutting applications. You will need a simpler carbon steel (at least for the outside layers) and/or a lot softer steel for the outside of the body of the blade. You can only get a hard edge if you use a laminated blade or differential hardening. So you have to spend more money or get a big chunk of simple carbon steel that is down around 50 RC.

The problem is that the knife buying public has been demanding stainless steel blades and/or blades with hard edges lately. Most of the knives out there are more brittle than they used to be. Even knives like the Beckers that were designed to be rugged are being produced with a cutlery steel like 0170-6C and are being hardened too much for the crowbar application. Even the crowbar-shaped knives are generally not crowbar optimized these days. You have to pay the bucks and get complex knives like Swamprat if you want the performance that you are expecting.

Here's what I would do. I would get the thickest blade I could find made of 1095 steel. I would take the handle off and I would put it in my oven at 500 degrees for an hour. I would let it cool down and repeat the cycle a couple times. This will soften the blade and make more durable. You will probably need to resharpen and repolish the blade when you are done.

Edited afterthought. I was just swagging the 500 degrees. You should probably use 550 degrees. Each time you take it out of the oven test it to see if it is soft enough yet. It should be easy to sharpen the edge with an old mill bastard file. Then put it through another hour of softening.

All of your critics are just used to modern brittle knives. They are right within the scope of their experience. You have to go outside the box if you want your utility crowbar and you will need to sharpen it a bit more (not as much as you might think). A machete that is all soft or a kukuri with a hardened edge will do the things you want intrinsically.
 
i agree with the original poster here. no one can tell you how to use your knives. i'm a "best tool for every job" kinda guy but there are instances when i just get one tool.

everybody has a right to express their opinions in an open forum such as this one. the problem is when people with bad additudes clutter this board with stupid, non-helpful comments. it's great when people attempt to help other with problems but it's just annoying when bitter, lonely people work out their demons with trolling, elitist comments with no redeeming value.

i'm sorry to those who look for help and get dumped on. i hope a loving nature expressed by most members of this site will alienate and seperate the punks that shot off at the mouth. just because you are free to do so doesn't mean that you should or are welcomed to.
 
Just thought I'd bust out my 1st grade drawling skills and make up a little comic to bust your balls. :)

toon.gif
 
I don't think fulloflead was talking about a REAL pry bar. I think he was wanting a good utility knife that will preform many tasks. Which might include needing to pry something, among other things. I have seen a lot of knives with the tip broken, so a lot of people feel the same way.
LW are you saying that you have never used a tool for anything other than what it was designed for. I know more than once I have stuck a screw driver threw an oil filter to get it off. Was that boarderline ignorance? I would say more of a creative solution to a problem. Maybe it is just me, but I do not always have the proper tool for any given situation, sometimes I just have to make do with what I have.
Some people (many people) enjoy being able to abuse a knife. That is part of the thrill. I know a few people who like to build race cars. What do they do? They push them and push them till they blow them up, and start all over agian. Do I lecture them on how a car is a means of transportation and how they could save money by not racing? No, I do not.

Fulloflead, I get your point and I feel your pain.

Josh Graham
www.grahamknives.com
 
Have you considered the Strider model?
.....
BTW, I think some folks might be trying to tell (only because their trying to be helpful, not motherly, really,......)
Is why bother with a big knife that you can use as a prybar when you can carry a small knife and a small prybar? Not even considering cost it would be easier to carry.
 
Josh Graham,
You rock. Preach on, man.

---

Alternately, you could use a Strider or Swamprat or Busse whatever way you want... and if it breaks, they'll all be impressed. Just don't bring the edge angle down to 15 degrees inclusive.

Admittedly my Striders, while having a seriously sharp slicing edge, don't cut dense material well because of the stock thickness. But whenever I try cutting 4-ply cardboard, or something else like that, my wife laughs at me heartlessly and tells me to get my BM 520 or a slicer designed for that.

I know that a prying-oriented knife is not meant for slicing, and a slicing-oriented knife is not meant for prying.

It's when I forget or feel like playing around that I get my ego bruised.

Alternately #2, you could carry around a really sharp, thin knife AND a mini prybar.

;)

-j
 
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