Im thinking a saiga12 for survival, whats your take.

[dan-g]

Currently ive got a benneli m4 for "survival" unfortunatly im really looking for a do it all utility gun and the benneli doesnt have aftermarket barrels or a adjustable choke system. Right now the benneli is very tactical and not a complete game gun. I could bag deer,hog,elk,bear,possibly turkey but not airborn fowl. It has a max range of 100yrds with slugs and at that range it shoots a little low.

Beneli has titanium full lenth mag tube, kz quad rail,kz bolt,kz stock, rail guards,stainless follower,upgrade spring,2 mesa tac sidesaddles,ect...(thats why the price)
Cost of benneli with accesories $2,600

What im really looking for is a single shotgun that can take anthing I throw at it and still handle two leged defence quite well. (this is assuming that you only want to carry one long gun when you gotta run, like i do) Ive settled on the 24inch plus 1.5 inch polychoke saiga. It would have a total of 25.5 inch barrel and the necisarry upgrades like twister puck and gas adjuster, with a couple of 922compliant american made 10rnd mags and some 2rnd and 5rnd hunting mags. Also, a top rail for my eotech or scope. Im going to leave it in its sporting stock mode so I can still take it on the trap range. Im basical putting a focus on hunting rather than defence.

Stock siaga no conversion,poly choke,twister plug,uper rail,gas adjuster,tromix firing pin, and mags.
Cost of saiga with accesories $1,000 (this is another reason for selling the benneli and buying the saiga)

Chance of hunting with this gun: 100%
Chance of Zobiepocalipse: 0.002%

Basicaly im looking for forum member feedback and I already know that the benneli is used my the army and marines. I would apreciate any feedback especialy if you have shot these guns.

Thanks for your time

 

[fixer]

i think a Saiga converted to an AK stock and grip usually runs a few hundred more than the price you quoted. not a huge deal, but i think they're closer to $1,200.

err... a shop near me has a Saiga 12 Defender listed for $1,495 (add another $200 for the tax stamp if you want a SBS, plus something for them to cut it down) and they list the Binelli M4 for $1,525 don't know what accessories you have on the M4, but the base price on the M4 and the price of a convertted S12 don't seem far enough apart to worry about.

Features:
- New Saiga-12 shotgun
- Molyresin finish
- All accessory holes TIG welded
- Modified G2 trigger group
- Aluminum quad rail system
- SAW pistol grip (choice of OD, FDE or black)
- Magpul MOE mil-spec buttstock (choice of OD, FDE or black)
- Magpul rail ladder covers (choice of OD, FDE or black)
- VLTOR stock extension with QD sling mount
- 10-round Gen II magazine
- 5-round Saiga factory magazine
- Bolt hold open models
- Factory Heckler & Koch front and rear sight assemblies TIG welded to the top cover and front sight base

but you could be leaving it with the normal stock.

if price is the only concern, a Mossberg 500 is about $250.

nobody uses shotguns for deer or elk in my area. all rifles.

in a true survival situation, i wouldn't use a gun for bambi... i'd use a nice locking snare. those are about $5 or $10 or so.

if you're worried about defending against two legged predators, i think i'd want something a little shorter. for 2-legged predators i'd want a "normal" M4gery in 5.56. (unless it's "reach out and touch someone" time)

but since "two is one and one is none" just having ONE of any gun is inviting Murphy to your party. you need a backup. ideally a duplicate, but that's not always practical. so if you're counting on a shotgun, you should have a backup shotgun AND spare parts. the logistics for spare parts are simpler if you have duplicate weapons.

tube fed shotguns are fairly slow to reload, shotgun ammo is bulky... sooo it's not really ideal for the two legged predator problems. no problem with it for hunting because the weight and bulk shouldn't be a huge problem.

 

[cssims]

I've just recently been looking into Saiga 12 gauges recently. I can get one locally around the mid $500 range and I'm still not sure about the conversion part of it, but online another $500 gets you a conversion done to it. So you are looking at around $1k+. Also don't forget magazines for it. (Around $27 each when you buy in bulk.) I totally blame Magpul's Art of the Dynamic Shotgun for me being interested in one for fun, but for a SHTF shotgun, I'll stick to my Mossberg 500A Persuader.

 

[dan-g]

I hightlighted some sections in my post and edited to add the accesories price. Good feedback.

I could buy a second siaga in 19inch, it would just sit there but it could come in handy.

That conversion price is off, I can get a complete do it yourself kit with butstock handgrip for $200 from mississippi arms. Although im not converting it, im leaving the sporting stock so I can take it to the trap range and not get hassled when hunting. That $1000 is for the accesories I listed and a crapload of mags.

 

[ROCK6]

Funny you mention this. I don't have a M4, but I have the M1 Super 90. I still love it, but when I went to get a standard stock and bird barrel, I figured I'd just buy a new shotgun considering the price difference!

I just took my Saiga out after work on Thursday for a buddy to try out. It's an absolute blast. Mine is no where near set up for anything beyond zombie home invasions or zombie hunting

I really was considering picking up a stock one for doing something similar to what you're planning. The Saiga is the perfect platform for a semi-auto 12ga! Very reliable and there are several decent mags. I'm running APG's and a coupel of MD drums. I won't say it's the ultimate for WSS, but it is ultimately fun at the range

ROCK6

 

[tabeeb762]

I have the Saiga 12 in hunting configuration (no pistol grip).
Its a combat shotgun first, and a hunting/sport gun a distant second. Though I would still put it way ahead of any pump gun in both categories.

If you're looking for a sporting shotgun that can be pressed into combat service I recimmend any Italian automatic from; Benelli, Beretta, Luigi Franchi.
American guns like the BrowingGold/WinchesterSX2/FNSLP and the Browning AUTO-5 are right up there. You can get barrels for all good autos.

The SAIGA is like the BK-2. Tough, dependable, combat knife, but you wouldn't want to use it for skinning.

 

[Les Snyder]

if you are looking for the "Chevy" of the hunting world, I would recommend a Remington 1187...with a trap stock that you can cut down to fit your point of impact, 26 or 28 inch vent rib Rem choke barrel( I have a LocTited light modified in my game gun)...the 1187 has a stainless mag tube, and larger extractor than the 1100, variety of finishes, shell length, and is readily found in the used market

my game gun is a Benelli M1S90 field 21inch, Briley mag extension, Briley choke, flip up 1022 sights

 

[cssims]

I hightlighted some sections in my post and edited to add the accesories price. Good feedback.

I could buy a second siaga in 19inch, it would just sit there but it could come in handy.

That conversion price is off, I can get a complete do it yourself kit with butstock handgrip for $200 from mississippi arms. Although im not converting it, im leaving the sporting stock so I can take it to the trap range and not get hassled when hunting. That $1000 is for the accesories I listed and a crapload of mags.

That price I gave is for someone else to do it for you, from what I'm seeing. I've read only a little about converting the Saiga, but I'm not understanding why one needs to convert it.

 

[tabeeb762]

That price I gave is for someone else to do it for you, from what I'm seeing. I've read only a little about converting the Saiga, but I'm not understanding why one needs to convert it.

Because without a pistol grip it is a gun in limbo.

 

[Erasmus]

If you want to stay legal for hunting with the small cap magazines, is it legal to possess the hi caps in the hunting fields in your state? May want to look into that. What will the Game Warden say when he rolls up on you and you have a 10 shot mag in your immediate possession?

I personally advocate the Rem 870. since you need a repeater.

 

[Watchful]

Hunting is one thing. The Saiga is great.

Short term survival: it'd be curious that you'd be lucky enough to have a shotgun with you, but the Saiga is fine for that. I'm thinking a car breaks down in the middle of nowhere, no one knows where you are, and you can't call out for help... actually, you probably have simpler priorities than food, and wouldn't need to worry about the shotgun.

Long term survival: the Saiga isn't good, as opposed to say a Remington. If any part of your weapon breaks, you're done. With millions of Remmies out there, you can always get spare parts from somewhere.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I think he's envisioning the proverbial SHTF episode.

Pros of the Saiga is that it's a Kalashnikov action, and reliable in the extreme. Buy extra springs, and you'll probably neve34r have to replace anything else. It's also fast, and can be high capacity for combat use.

However, the downside is something that makes it both unreliable and not suited to a SHTF survival episode:

It has a known weakness that if you keep a fully loaded magazine in the gun, the shells will eventually deform against the bolt. The misshapen shells tend to not want to go into battery. IMO if you can't carry the weapon loaded all the time in the situation you seem to be thinking of, it's not a good idea.

Another peeve of mine is that due to the size of the shells, a 10 round magazine stick WAY out -- even further than a 40 round AK-47 magazine, and hurts the maneuverability of the weapon.

If you want a shotgun for such use, and it has to be an autoloader, I'd second the recommendation for a Remington 11-87, and I'd get the 21" smoothbore barrel with rifle sights and choke tubes.

If you're willing to go with a pump gun, then the perennial Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 are good ways to go.
I prefer the 870 Police. Reasons being it's based on the Wingmaster and has a much smoother operation than the lower-priced Express. It's also Parkerized, which makes it more weather resistant. Add the 20" Smoothbore with RemChoke and rifle sights, and you have a good, handy do-all pump gun.

 

[tabeeb762]

If you want to stay legal for hunting with the small cap magazines, is it legal to possess the hi caps in the hunting fields in your state? May want to look into that. What will the Game Warden say when he rolls up on you and you have a 10 shot mag in your immediate possession?

I personally advocate the Rem 870. since you need a repeater.

The standard Saiga mag is 5 rounds. Mine came with a plug that goes under the spring. It can be romoved or reinserted easily.
While hunting migratory birds can use any size magazine your heart desires, as long as it is limited to two rounds. That is Federal law.

There is another inconvenience with the Saiga. The magazine is far from being an advantage when limited two two rounds.
Its far easier to pop two in the tube mag than changing or even reloading a box magazine. Its also pretty difficult to get a loaded mag seated when there is already one in the pipe.
Also the bolt does not hold open when the gun is dry.

Get a SAIGA for the zombies, and a good tube fed autoloader for everything else

 

[Ultraman]

I think he's envisioning the proverbial SHTF episode.

Pros of the Saiga is that it's a Kalashnikov action, and reliable in the extreme. Buy extra springs, and you'll probably neve34r have to replace anything else. It's also fast, and can be high capacity for combat use.

However, the downside is something that makes it both unreliable and not suited to a SHTF survival episode:

It has a known weakness that if you keep a fully loaded magazine in the gun, the shells will eventually deform against the bolt. The misshapen shells tend to not want to go into battery. IMO if you can't carry the weapon loaded all the time in the situation you seem to be thinking of, it's not a good idea.

(snipped)gun.

That was interesting to know! I saw an ad for the Remington Versa Max (autoloading). It looks like it's been out for awhile. What does the jury have to say on this? Thanks! EDIT: looks like capacity and choke configurations are for hunting

 

[trukreltrog]

I think he's envisioning the proverbial SHTF episode.

Pros of the Saiga is that it's a Kalashnikov action, and reliable in the extreme. Buy extra springs, and you'll probably neve34r have to replace anything else. It's also fast, and can be high capacity for combat use.

However, the downside is something that makes it both unreliable and not suited to a SHTF survival episode:

It has a known weakness that if you keep a fully loaded magazine in the gun, the shells will eventually deform against the bolt. The misshapen shells tend to not want to go into battery. IMO if you can't carry the weapon loaded all the time in the situation you seem to be thinking of, it's not a good idea.

Another peeve of mine is that due to the size of the shells, a 10 round magazine stick WAY out -- even further than a 40 round AK-47 magazine, and hurts the maneuverability of the weapon.

If you want a shotgun for such use, and it has to be an autoloader, I'd second the recommendation for a Remington 11-87, and I'd get the 21" smoothbore barrel with rifle sights and choke tubes.

If you're willing to go with a pump gun, then the perennial Mossberg 500 or Remington 870 are good ways to go.
I prefer the 870 Police. Reasons being it's based on the Wingmaster and has a much smoother operation than the lower-priced Express. It's also Parkerized, which makes it more weather resistant. Add the 20" Smoothbore with RemChoke and rifle sights, and you have a good, handy do-all pump gun.

Exactly what I thought as well. Saiga 12 is a great toy. But leaving it loaded diminishes the reliability. Deformed 12 guage shells do not feed very well. I sold mine, just my $.02,,,

 

[Cynt]

Get the saiga and head over to warriortalk.com and drink the koolade. :thumbup:

 

[Cpl Punishment]

That was interesting to know! I saw an ad for the Remington Versa Max (autoloading). It looks like it's been out for awhile. What does the jury have to say on this? Thanks! EDIT: looks like capacity and choke configurations are for hunting

28" barrels are too long for all-round use, and I don't see shorter barrels for sale for it.

3 1/2" 12 ga shells are not needed, and most people don't see any real benefit. If you need that much more shot, a 10ga tends to disburse shot better.

A ported shotgun -- good for recoil, LOUD as hell, louder than a non-ported gun.

If you want an autoloading Remington, the 11-87 is the way to go, you can use 2 /34 or 3" shells, RemChokes (IC is best for slugs and buckshot, Mod for most other shot sizes, and Full for the smaller bird shot (say, smaller than #4 Bird). 1 gun, 3 choke tubes. And with the 21" barrel I mentioned above, you have rifle sights, so you can sight it for slugs, and use the front post like you would a bead for shot shooting.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

Get the saiga and head over to warriortalk.com and drink the koolade. :thumbup:

For a fighting shotgun, where you pick it up and lock and load on the way to a fight, it's great. But, as mentioned above (and on WarriorTalk, BTW), the deformed shell phenomenon calls for leaving it unloaded until you're close to needing it -- not a good thing for survival situations of long duration.

 

[Zombie Zeke]

Mossberg 590a1, ghost sights.

Talk all you want about everything under the sun, this action does everything.

If it's ok for the US Marine Corps, well tis good nuff for lil me.

 

[ROCK6]

It has a known weakness that if you keep a fully loaded magazine in the gun, the shells will eventually deform against the bolt. The misshapen shells tend to not want to go into battery. IMO if you can't carry the weapon loaded all the time in the situation you seem to be thinking of, it's not a good idea.

This was my initial concern, but it hasn't occurred yet. I had four 10-round mags loaded for the past 3-4 months...I had just one failure which we couldn't diagnose. The round went into battery but it was odd in that it didn't seem to cock the trigger Another option is the 20-round drums...I've got one loaded (it's been loaded since this summer); I'll have to try it out. I do agree that I wouldn't leave the mags loaded indefinitely as I can see the potential for deformation. Another option is to keep a few of the stock 5 round mags...these are really well built but it doesn't fix the problem of soft shells.

ROCK6