Improvised Weapons - Whadda Ya Do?

i read about 33% of the thread. i just want to get this out there before i continue :)

i DONT know that there are sleepers or what not. so once control is gained over the one hijacker, you really don't know who to trust to help you afterwards. so what i thought a few weeks ago is to play the odds: someone who has children and aboard is less likely to be a suicidal terrorist. i may be wrong, but attempting to stack the odds in your favor is better than trusting ANYONE aboard.

so on the chance that the terrorist lives, i'd have a father watch the bad guy. as much as possible, i'd have everyone remain in their seats until landing, for their safety, and mine. anyoe i assigned a job to do ("make sure no one gets up" or "tell the pilots this") would be someone with family on the plane.

this gets dicey if the pilots are incapacitated. what if a single male says that he has a pilots license, which ism ore than most other people can claim- do i trust him to get us down safely? but then, everything nowadays is a gamble.
 
Originally posted by Hawkins
what if a single male says that he has a pilots license, which ism ore than most other people can claim- do i trust him to get us down safely? but then, everything nowadays is a gamble.

Ask him:

"What are the basic VFR weather minimums for operating an aircraft within Class D airspace?"

If he doesn't reply: "1,000-foot ceiling and 3 miles visibility", duct tape him to his seat.
 
Gas & Go scenario...

I've been pondering the subtle wisdom of this "Attack in Retrograde" concept more and more.

Being outnumbered and outgunned, a direct attack seems foolhardy, and likely to get someone killed.

Sneaking out, lying low, and using Mr. Cellphone seems the order of the day.
 
1. I pull a security halt right where I am and...

1a. Look: I check out the security mirrors to see what I can see:eek:

1b. Listen: I listen to see if these are friends of the store clerk who are just jerking him off or...:confused:

2. If just a bad joke on everyone present I saunter up and buy my stuff and then leave;)

3. If bad ju-ju I get real low, real fast. I dial up 911 (which is on auto dial so I don't waste time) and I whisper real low giving only the following: Who? What? Where? How (weapons possible) and Why (hold-up):(

4. I keep the cell line open so 911 records EVERYTHING my little transmitter picks up and sends out (Evidence).

5. I slip Mr. Knife from pocket. Quietly open. And sit tight til Da Man arrives with back-up and a whole lotta guns.

6. If push comes to shove, I make the decisions then...and improvise my attack and weapons "off the shelf" so to speak. And I go all out, no holds barred, balls to the wall, with exit and escape my primary objectives. If the clerk gets clear either with or without me, so much the better:D

7. Luck is when opportunity meets preparation:p

Next scenario...these are good. Need to hear from more folks, though.
 
(1) Schoolteacher? I'd grab my ruler and whack his knuckles so hard he's gonna cry, then I'd order him to stand in the corner while the kids make a dunce cap for him to wear. Call 911 when we are done.

(2) Parking lot choke? Grab folding knife from visor, from beside stereo, from driver's armrest, or from pocket, whichever was currently handiest, and try to amputate the choking arm, keeping it for evidence. Probably can't reach the big knives in glove box this time. Yes, I really do have a buncha knives handy!

(3) Stop & Rob? Slither out the back door, make a phone call, watch from a distance. I'm not responsible for protecting a store clerk, especially without my pistol!

Nothing to add about airline garrotter or bus hijacker, thumbs or pens into eye sockets covers it. I do wonder how to conceal that San Francisco Bludgeon past the strip search, though.
 
Chute, your advice for the car choke reminds me of a story an old local personality, Jim White, on late night talk radio KMOX.He was telling a story about when he came home after WWII he kept his bayonet (maybe this should be in the other thread :)) next to him in his Corvette. After a date he was driving home and was stopped. All the sudden an arm reached in and grabbed him my the throat. He proceeded to grab said bayonette and stab it into the guys arm. He said that all he heard were quickly retreating footsteps and a howl of pain. He proceeded to haul ass outta there. Just thought y'all might appreciate the anecdotal affirmation of Chute's methods.
 
Ok, I'm gonna throw a wrench into the works here...

stabbing a BG with a space pen, bludgeoning him to death with... welll your bludgeon is all well and good... BUT

What are the legal ramifications if the BG dies? I mean seriously... as civilians, we're not allowed to kill. Will you get your ass hauled off the plane by the cops/CT team (when the plane lands you can bet there's gonna be uniforms around) and after hours or even days, THEN they decide that you're no threat and let you go? Or is it more likely, in this day and age of human rights ('He was just a misunderstood, underprivileged, abused-as-a-child, victim; not a terrorist') that you'll face charges of endangering a fellow passenger and get manslaughter charges?

So you subdue the BG and using shoelaces tie his thumbs behind his back... but you were over zealous and by the time the cops come, his thumbs are purple/black. Imagine him suing you for injury! Don't think that can happen? Go ask some cops hope careful they are about police brutality charges. Hell, are we even allowed to detain a BG by tying him up? Isn't that a citizen's arrest? Is that allowed?

What if you actually seriously harm the BG while defending yourself? What happens after the dust settles? Anyone care to provide a legal POV? Or has this happened to anyone? Care to relate what happened the day after?
 
Originally posted by Qew71

What are the legal ramifications if the BG dies? I mean seriously... as civilians, we're not allowed to kill.

I suppose that depends on your jurisdiction.

In much of the U.S., for example, you are allowed to defend yourself with lethal force in some circumstances. After doing so, yes, there will likely be some paperwork to deal with. (My wife, the attorney, does *not* recommend the often-offered BladeForums strategy of "shoot the bad guy, then run away and hope nobody saw anything" - she points out that there are always half a dozen nuns or other totally credible witnesses watching when you least expect it...)

There are steps you can take ahead of time to make your life simpler in the aftermath - documenting your training, already having good lawyers on retainer, having sufficient umbrella insurance coverage, acting rationally, that sort of thing...

Understanding these things ahead of time is important, as then you are less likely to dither when action is called for.
 
ok self-defence is one thing. I mean if you're directly threatened with force, and you defend yourself with force... well, that's pretty reasonable.

But what about a scenario like a loony on a plane? I'm sure the 'official' position is to let a CT team take care of it and 'all passengers remain seated'. Just play out the scenario: you subdue/maim/kill the BG, plane is saved, you're a hero (are you really? Bet the cops will still cuff you and haul you away for questioning and after a huge inquest the FAA will ban pens on flights and we'll all have to eat with our hands) and eventually you're a free man.
BUT what if said BG was a dedicated tango and had friends on board? What if there was a *gasp* bomb! And your interference triggered a series of events that lead to a fireball in the sky? Hmmm... it all comes down to liability... you get the blame.

So to quote Dennis Hopper, 'Pop quiz hotshot, What Do You Do?'

Pick up the phone and call someone? Who do you call? And if I turned on my GSM cellphone... can I even get a signal?

I don't mean to throw a wet blanket on these fun scenarios but seriously... What IS the recommended course of action here? In the event of a fire we call the fire dept, injury we call the medics... in an airliner situation, who do we call?? what do we do?

Anyone here former or current CT? Anyone give the 'proper' advice?

as an aside... this airliner scenario (similar and more deadly) was used in Rainbow Six.. it's the prologue of the book... go check it out.

Oh, and one other thing... what's the recommended plan for the piracy scenario? It's very real in this part of the world... especially near indonesian waters. heck I have heard of some old hand deep sea anglers who carry machettes/parangs or other big knives solely for chopping the anchor line and running. According to these guys many of the pirates are armed and basically all they want is your boat/yacht/fishing vessel. They'll kill you and dump you overboard... no mercy.

So I guess in that sort of situation we just kiss our ass goodbye?
 
I'd gouge out his eyeballs and skull **** him!

Sorry, couldn't resist quoting America's favorite DI.
 
Some of those high end diving watches are heavier than a baseball. You can even use a strap and turn it into a "sap."

Maybe that's a good reason to wear a rolex (no I'm NOT picking on rolex - it's just the first to come to mind) instead of a g-shock.
 
just shoelaces ? why not just get can of coke or rootbeer and hit him with it? and if you are strong enough why not just use your fists? i would be more worried if he had a knife or a boxcutter with him.
 
HELLO, its post 911.

If you have a terrorist on a plane, or someone trying to take over the plane, or garrotte a stewerdes, and you kill the "terrorist" do you really think any Jury will convict you?

Do you really think any Grand Jury will indict you?

Do you think that Ashcroft is going to dislike you? Or do you think he may fix those parking tickets you have, and that little hurdle with the ATF where they wont let you have suppressed automatic weapons cause you're not a cop?

Yeah, they will investigate, but what will people say? "This big guy stabbed the pen into the head of they guy attacking the blond stewerdes with the great legs. he looked like he was a real mean guy. and he had some baseball cap on that said Bladeforums or something like that...I guess knife people really aren't that bad... "

The Stew is going to coroborate it and you will end up having a great first date(one can wish...), and a new pen compliments of the airline.

Any dick who tries to be a hijacker in todays climate is asking to die.

If they have a bomb or something, and you all die, well, do you want to have another WTC or would you rather act like the people on flight 93?
 
Rolexes are way too light to make a decent sap. The G-Shock I have at the house is way lighter than the Sky King I want. Rolexes as a whole are way lighter than they appear. Now RoTex, that's a heacy watch.

Why not get TWO cokes from the stew with the great legs (why are they always dumpy on my flights, until four or five Heinekens?) Save one to pummel anyone heading towards the cockpit not waering official flight crew wear.

If you whack a hijacker, the entire crew, not just the stew will thank you. The USA will thank you. You will be offered the op to be a consultant to airline security. Girls, limos, a big house. Ashcroft will hug you.

BTW, recently a pilot was relieved, while in full uniform, of his tweezers long enoughh to remove the pointy bit at the end, with the Fed security specialist telling the pilot that he, the pilot, (remember, the pilot is in full uniform) could take control of the airplane with the tweezers.

The pilot pointed to the hat, uniform and the in-plain-view ID stating his name as CAPTAIN ________ and stated flatly "I am going to take control of the airplane."

We have DEA, FBI, CIA, DIA, NSA, NSS, COMFLTPAC and all the other Clancy-esque alpahbet groups out there, I reiterate the "Federal Air Trasportation Agency Security Service." Lots of black plastic raid jackets sying in huge white letters FATASS. Don't get off that stool, honey!
 
Originally posted by Parker
Rolexes are way too light to make a decent sap.

That's why you should wear an Audemars Piguet Royal Oak Offshore Chrono :)

<img src="http://www.fullyvested.com/bae/watch/imgs/royaloak3.jpg">
 
I have noticed on large gap in the solution to the hotel room scenario. When most business people travel they do so with carry on luggage. Post 9-11 this mean that said person would not have any knives even if they normally carry them into the bathroom. The best tactic for this situation would either be to head for the door or to barricade yourself in the bathroom. No amount of money or material object is worth you life. Remember you only have "one ass to risk" -Gary Paul Johnston

Great thread- Eric
 
carry an extra pait of thick socks. make sure you have a un opened soda can with you. instant blackjack for your CounterTerrorist use.

I know i dont want to be conked upside the head with that kind of thing.

or, a 15 inch long g-10 dildo from fredricks of holywood.

if you carry it, who is going to touch it, and if you use it imagine the shock you will inflict on the hijacker, and the news media.

martial art device or mariatal aid???
 
I would first decide if I had anyone who would help attack him and if so use their help "strength in numbers" If no one had my back I would do what I do best and come in punchin and definitly would not stop even when he was down. stomp him to death with my boots nuff said.
 
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